Fear

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epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:38 am

QM sez...there is brain .....

lights on

no one home.....

this is where the idea of Qualia comes in...
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:41 am

Michael....

We are one and the same
maple3
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Post by maple3 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:43 am

maple3 wrote:
michael wrote:maple... there is always a concept lurking behind the emotion of fear...

can you articulate it...

Love
Hmm, not sure how to explain... I'm saying the bare and naked "emotion of fear" has nothing to do with the "concept of fear" (although I admit the two can also be connected)...

It's like when that ferocious bear surprises you, and you don't really have time to even conceptualize what it is. You might have a natural reflex ... and jump, startled (flight or flight reflex)... and the adrenaline is instantly created in the adrenal glands, instantly washing throughout the bloodstream. Ya know, the adrenals don't actually need a "concept" to create adrenaline at faster-than-lightning speed...

And all that "flight or fight" response happens without the "concept," and without the "thinking" about what has frightened you. And like Toomby said, the brain is "a tenth of a second" behind... (comparatively very sluggish when compared to the biological and emotional responses to fear). So I'm talking more about the raw emotions that have nothing to do with concepts. Certainly concepts can create emotions... and concepts on top of concepts can create emotions on top of emotions... but emotions can also exist without any concepts whatsoever.


Love
To add to what I wrote above...

For sufferers of PTSD, the emotion of fear is clearly unfettered, while also seemingly still fettered to a concept.

And the same thing is true for sufferers of other emotional disorders. I suffer from a clinical depression disorder that may be tied to a concept of sadness and grief, but it is also completely separate from that same concept of sadness and grief.

And the reason you don't really need a concept to feel emotions is because all emotions are created with biochemicals. It is not possible to feel sadness or joy without its accompanying biochemical process. All emotions are actually a biological function, not a concept... But yes, concepts can trigger those same biochemical processes.


Love
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:47 am

maple3 wrote:To add to what I wrote above...

For sufferers of PTSD, the emotion of fear is clearly unfettered, while also seemingly still fettered to a concept.

And the same thing is true for sufferers of other emotional disorders. I suffer from a clinical depression disorder that may be tied to a concept of sadness and grief, but it is also completely separate from that same concept of sadness and grief.

And the reason you don't really need a concept to feel emotions is because all emotions are created with biochemicals. It is not possible to feel sadness or joy without its accompanying biochemical process. All emotions are actually a biological function, not a concept... But yes, concepts can trigger those same biochemical processes.


Love
can i encourage you to feel what you feel ...and leave the dissassociation behind....

you like me are only human...something went wrong with Adviata...and people became guru clones....they completely missd the point of it all....

live and let it be as it is.....
michael
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Post by michael » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:52 am

epi wrote:QM sez...there is brain .....

lights on

no one home.....

this is where the idea of Qualia comes in...
and in what brain is this idea of QM present...

as for qualia being an idea...

that is itself just an idea...

for 'qualia' are meaningless... impossible to conceive 'what' the colour red 'is'...

seeing red... simply 'is'... no theory... no doubt...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:54 am

i talk to Melz once on the phone...i remember now...how i had nothing to really say outloud...

it was embarassing because it showed how much of a fraud i had become

with all the high sounding stuff...

i should buy him a table dance or two !
michael
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Post by michael » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:05 am

maple3 wrote:
michael wrote:maple... there is always a concept lurking behind the emotion of fear...

can you articulate it...

Love
Hmm, not sure how to explain... I'm saying the bare and naked "emotion of fear" has nothing to do with the "concept of fear" (although I admit the two can also be connected)...

It's like when that ferocious bear surprises you, and you don't really have time to even conceptualize what it is. You might have a natural reflex ... and jump, startled (flight or flight reflex)... and the adrenaline is instantly created in the adrenal glands, instantly washing throughout the bloodstream. Ya know, the adrenals don't actually need a "concept" to create adrenaline at faster-than-lightning speed...

And all that "flight or fight" response happens without the "concept," and without the "thinking" about what has frightened you. And like Toomby said, the brain is "a tenth of a second" behind... (comparatively very sluggish when compared to the biological and emotional responses to fear). So I'm talking more about the raw emotions that have nothing to do with concepts. Certainly concepts can create emotions... and concepts on top of concepts can create emotions on top of emotions... but emotions can also exist without any concepts whatsoever.


Love
the 'raw emotion'... is just an emotion... a feeling...

the explanation for 'how and why' the fear is felt is just more concepts... including 'brains and tenth of seconds'... for... if you are honest... these ideas exist only in the knowing of them right now... never have 'you' or 'anyone' ever observed their own brain functioning... and any other 'person' or 'brain' perceived... is just another appearance in awareness... it is not the supposed 'real brain' that is conceived to exist... 'out there'...

no doubt... 'the world' appears to work the way described... but any descrption is purely conceptual...

but we are not talking about 'the world'...

we are talking about the nature of 'fear'...

the scenario described is one in which 'I am in danger of being ripped to sheds'... it is perhaps 'unspoken' or even 'unthought' in that instant... but that is the 'fear'... it is a fear of what may happen in the future... albeit in the very near future... :(

in the actual attack... many people report a complete lack of fear... even as they feel the beast crushing their bones... as though it is happening to someone else...

for it is not really happening at all...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:10 am

the senti ment of the attack...is

'its finally happening...its over now' (a paradoxical emotion)

What I fear worst has befallen me....!

the emotion is timeless...
meL

Post by meL » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:17 am

epi wrote:Of all the fears that there is...my fear is that of being squished by a heavy weight...like a bulldozer...or a tank
:D
squished by a heavy naked Female
:D
NO FEAR !
:D

..... I DONT GET STONED

I WANT TO FEEL EVERYTHING

SIMPLE
:shock:
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:19 am

meL wrote:
epi wrote:Of all the fears that there is...my fear is that of being squished by a heavy weight...like a bulldozer...or a tank
:D
squished by a heavy naked Female
:D
NO FEAR !
:D

..... I DONT GET STONED

I WANT TO FEEL EVERYTHING

SIMPLE
:shock:
Haaaaaa !

crushed by creation !!

:P
Last edited by epi on Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
epi
Posts: 1711
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:28 am

the wierdness of it all is.....

no ones looking
meL

Post by meL » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:30 am

does that classify as a fetish or whut?

no
answer

from
woody

sorry :D :D :D
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:32 am

its a glitch......

all apologies

nevermind.... :roll:
meL

Post by meL » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:33 am

Leo

dont
worry

WE *know
where to

get really
nasty in
the matrix...( not here ) :D
meL

Post by meL » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:35 am

epi wrote:its a glitch......

all apologies

nevermind.... :roll:
quote
:D :D
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