There is no...

awakening
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There is no...

Post by awakening » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:12 am

("Copied from the "fear Thread.")


Doe anyone feel that at times our discussions here get too abstract?

There is no this,
there is no that,
only as imagined,
and so on....

All true to some extent
and useful as pointers at some times
but this means nothing when fear jumps in...
imagined or real...

Or to paraphrase Forest Gump
"The body is as the body does."

And when there are too many 'there is no.... postings' for Leo's taste
he digs up the same ol' words that always come to mind at such times..

"Thirty years ago, before I practiced [Zen], I saw that mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers. However, after having achieved intimate knowledge and having gotten a way in, I saw that mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers. But now that I have found rest, as before, I see mountains as mountains and rivers as rivers."

Zen master Quingyuan, describing 'his' insight The Compendium of Five Lamps "


*****************************************************

KYE HO! Wonderful!
You may say "existence," but you can't grasp it!
You may say "non-existence" but many things appear!
It is beyond the sky of "existence" and "non-existence" --
I know it but cannot point to it!

From Tantric Buddhist Women's Songs (8th - 11th c.)


***************************************

The nature of phenomena is nondual,
but each one, in its own state,
is beyond the limits of the mind.
There is no concept that can define
the condition of "what is"
but vision nevertheless manifests:
all is good.

From; "Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State" by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu



***************************************

Things are not what they seem;
nor are they otherwise.

~ Lankavatara Sutra ~



awakening
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Post by awakening » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:18 am

aquarius
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Location: The united kingdom of heaven

Post by aquarius » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:26 am

KYE HO! Wonderful!
You may say "existence," but you can't grasp it!
You may say "non-existence" but many things appear!
It is beyond the sky of "existence" and "non-existence" --
I know it but cannot point to it!

From Tantric Buddhist Women's Songs (8th - 11th c.)

* * * * *

aqua likes the above quote, and can relate to this quote..


as for the forum being abstract, i don't think it is too abstract,
a lot of ordinary discussion is tolerated, which makes this forum,
very unique and interesting, and must i say very addictive ,, :lol:

also regarding the word fear,
one cannot know LOVE if not for fear,
fear is imaginary like everything else,
and therefore once transcended only love can be known.

aqua.
Thanks ..
I love talking about nothing ...
it is the only thing i know anything about.
awakening
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Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:10 pm

Post by awakening » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:46 am

aquarius wrote:KYE HO! Wonderful!
You may say "existence," but you can't grasp it!
You may say "non-existence" but many things appear!
It is beyond the sky of "existence" and "non-existence" --
I know it but cannot point to it!

From Tantric Buddhist Women's Songs (8th - 11th c.)

* * * * *

aqua likes the above quote, and can relate to this quote..


as for the forum being abstract, i don't think it is too abstract,
a lot of ordinary discussion is tolerated, which makes this forum,
very unique and interesting, and must i say very addictive ,, :lol:


also regarding the word fear,
one cannot know LOVE if not for fear,
fear is imaginary like everything else,
and therefore once transcended only love can be known.

aqua.
Thanks ..
I agree Aqua

the forum is no too abstract
but at times it gets too abstract for my taste...
There seem to be moments when I open it and most postings are about 'there is no...' At other times it is like only jokes... or friends caring for each other..or arguing together..It doesn't really matter... but here is a tendency to 'balance' if you will.

The idea that everything is imaginary is one side of the story..that everything would be real is the other side...

To me the world is both real and imaginary.
That it would be 'a collection of many things' would be the imaginary bit....yet 'things' appear

Even the 'me'
is both seen as real and unreal.

So beyond real and unreal
suits 'me' best... :D

But when there is hunger..eating is/seems important.
When there is tiredness...sleep is/seems important..
And whether i call this real or unreal
seems to make not a bit of a difference..

When you have to go
you have to go... :D

Things are not what they seem;
nor are they otherwise.



empty-and-full
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Location: Unknown

Post by empty-and-full » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:47 am

I would agree wholeheartedly but there's no one here to do so! [bigsmile]
:)
jeff j
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:49 pm

Post by jeff j » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:30 pm

Main Entry: 1ab·stract
Pronunciation: \ab-ˈstrakt, ˈab-ˌ\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin abstractus, from Latin, past participle of abstrahere to drag away, from abs-, ab- + trahere to pull, draw
Date: 14th century
1 a: disassociated from any specific instance <an abstract entity> b: difficult to understand : abstruse <abstract problems> c: insufficiently factual : formal <possessed only an abstract right>
2: expressing a quality apart from an object <the word poem is concrete, poetry is abstract>
3 a: dealing with a subject in its abstract aspects : theoretical <abstract science> b: impersonal, detached <the abstract compassion of a surgeon — Time>
4: having only intrinsic form with little or no attempt at pictorial representation or narrative content <abstract painting>


as i contemplate
"is this forum too abstract"
first i stop to read it's meaningS
then the Talking Heads come on the radio
to sing to me "Stop Making Sense"
and here i am (attempting to make sense)
Of Abstraction

Leo's & Company
wishing you all the best:
dreams of realities and nonrealities
realisms & abstractions
for the Old Year...
the New One is still only a vague idea

[kiss]
:lol:
be yourself, the real fictional character?
empty-and-full
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Post by empty-and-full » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:53 pm

Leo wrote:
the forum is no too abstract
but at times it gets too abstract for my taste...
Sometimes I come to the forum and have no idea what to say, I'm in some other place, no longer nondual, no longer dual. Just something else. There is literally nothing to hold onto. Everything is allowed and anything can manifest.

As Toomby would say, the great Ad Libber at work. [bigsmile]
:)
awakening
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Post by awakening » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:26 pm

empty-and-full wrote:Leo wrote:
the forum is no too abstract
but at times it gets too abstract for my taste...
Sometimes I come to the forum and have no idea what to say, I'm in some other place, no longer nondual, no longer dual. Just something else. There is literally nothing to hold onto. Everything is allowed and anything can manifest.

As Toomby would say, the great Ad Libber at work. [bigsmile]
Now let's not forget to mention...
that there is no one to forget..
And that there is no 'something else'
That there is no some other place
And that there is no one to hold on to -or to allow- anything.

. :wink:

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Re: There is no...

Post by toombaru » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:32 pm

awakening wrote:("Copied from the "fear Thread.")
Does anyone feel that at times our discussions here get too abstract?





What happens when an abstraction feels that "things" are getting too abstract?



:roll:




toombaru
awakening
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Re: There is no...

Post by awakening » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:38 pm

toombaru wrote:
awakening wrote:("Copied from the "fear Thread.")
Does anyone feel that at times our discussions here get too abstract?





What happens when an abstraction feels that "things" are getting too abstract?



:roll:




toombaru
Is something supposed to happen Toombaru?
If there is, it is probably the same happening that happens
when one abstraction asks another abstraction what happens...
well look what happens now...
THIS....

There is no THIS

:wink:
toombaru
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Re: There is no...

Post by toombaru » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:47 pm

awakening wrote:
toombaru wrote:
awakening wrote:("Copied from the "fear Thread.")
Does anyone feel that at times our discussions here get too abstract?





What happens when an abstraction feels that "things" are getting too abstract?



:roll:




toombaru
Is something supposed to happen Toombaru?
If there is, it is probably the same happening that happens
when one abstraction asks another abstraction what happens...
well look what happens now...
THIS....

There is no THIS

:wink:


Now..........THAT'S too abstract!


:lol:


tooombaru
maple3
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Post by maple3 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:18 pm

awakening wrote:Doe anyone feel that at times our discussions here get too abstract?
No, not feeling that there's too much abstraction (actually I kinda like it ;) :D)... even sometimes it seems that there isn't enough abstraction...

But when abstraction is used as if to intentionally miss the point, or when it's used to play the pointless game of one-upmanship... yeah, admittedly that's annoying :evil:...

But in this most recent incident, I was only a little frustrated at not being able to also adequately express the abstract...

But then again, not really all that frustrated either ;)...

I guess I'm getting used to having an uncooperative and unreliable intellect. :roll:


Love
toombaru
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Post by toombaru » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:29 pm

maple3 wrote:
awakening wrote:Doe anyone feel that at times our discussions here get too abstract?
No, not feeling that there's too much abstraction (actually I kinda like it ;) :D)... even sometimes it seems that there isn't enough abstraction...

But when abstraction is used as if to intentionally miss the point, or when it's used to play the pointless game of one-upmanship... yeah, admittedly that's annoying :evil:...

But in this most recent incident, I was only a little frustrated at not being able to also adequately express the abstract...

But then again, not really all that frustrated either ;)...

I guess I'm getting used to having an uncooperative and unreliable intellect. :roll:


Love



The closer you get.......the harder it is to talk about.


:roll:


(bumper sticker)




toombaru
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Post by Aurora » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:37 pm

toombaru wrote:



The closer you get.......the harder it is to talk about.


:roll:


(bumper sticker)




toombaru

....and when you get really close .......... you dont talk at all ..........
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Post by annaruiz » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:42 pm

or.... the closer you look,
there u r and here i am
filling in what's missing
in One (life).

Not too bad, considering how close
the writing on the wall (or computer screen)
has been
(for a long, long time now) :lol: :lol:

hugs,
Anna
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