What is Liberation?

empty-and-full
Posts: 1448
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: Unknown

What is Liberation?

Post by empty-and-full » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:09 am

What is Liberation?


In the first place, liberation is a state of freedom where the individual ego is eliminated and the true egoless state or the state of Self is cognized. Liberation is the feeling that exists in all of us, only it is hidden from our view. It is that something that stands behind us and is our real true life; it is called by many names such as the Atman, the Soul, Self, Brahman, God, etc., however, it is always one and the same thing.

The question is that, if this is our own true and real Self, why are we not experiencing this at all times? The reason is that our Self has created limitations which conceal the nature of our true and real existence. When these self-created limitations, which are artificial, are removed, then the Atman is realized. This is called the liberation of the Soul.

The Soul does not then become something new, it simply remains what it is and where it is and what it has been eternally, and it will remain so for eternity. The pure existence, or the Atman, is the first principle of all things and all thoughts. It is ananda, or bliss, that the world of senses can neither give nor take away from the supreme pure bliss.

In the Absolute, it is the constant flow of that unbroken state of bliss consciousness, that flow-less flow of consciousness which is the real in the absolute sense, that which is immutable, eternal and all-pervading that is untouched by changes of the body, senses and mind-stuff. It is the unity behind the multiplicity. It is that rate of vibration that is so rapid that is seems to be motionless.

It is self-evident, whose nature is to be its own light. Neither heaven or hell or earth - good or bad - cause and effect - past, present or future - has anyplace in it. It is that incorporeal principle behind corporeal appearance and it is called the Atman.

Liberation or the Absolute has two main aspects; (1) freedom from our limitations, mental limitations, conceptions and our prejudices; and (2) enlightenment as to our own real and true existence. When the ignorance and the misunderstanding of our true and real Self vanishes, then and then only does the real Self stand in its own true effulgence.

The deliverance of the human from his self-created bondage, the glory of that which is beyond all grasp of thought, the happiness that is the very foundation of our existence, is nearer to us than anything of a physical nature. It is not a heaven to be experienced after death; rather it is the eternal heaven which is ever present here and now, always and always.

The Absolute or Nirvana is not an imagined world or an imaginary existence in which we have to live after we leave here. It is rather the real existence of the universe, the cognition of the primordial energy which constitutes all of existence. It is that which transcends our body, mind and senses and consciousness. It is cosmic energy and cosmic state of consciousness which are our eternal vibrations. That which is eternal was lowered down in density to where it lost its eternal state and entered a state of bondage.

In a freed soul, the liberated and enlightened Atman assumes its original form which is infinite existence and bliss consciousness. Liberation is not the abolition of the self, but rather the cognition of our infinity, limitlessness and absoluteness that comes through the expansion and illumination of our cognitive consciousness. This is why, when we reach enlightenment, we finally discover that we are the light.

Bliss is the essential nature of the Self; however, it remains concealed by the mind, by sensations, suffering, pain and ignorance. In the absence of misunderstanding and ignorance, the sense of bondage, pain and suffering disappears; then our true nature, unmixed with the senses, is manifested as pure bliss – no contamination.

The realization of liberation, the experience of bliss, the cognition of one's own real Self is not an objective process in which we are trying to obtain something. It is simply experiencing one's own true Self. Liberation is not to destroy the world, but the state of understanding the world as it really is. It is the knowledge of the Atman that changes the meaning of the world and its plurality.

The world does not change, it is that the liberated Soul's attachment to such a world has at long last ended. The world order and worldly events bring no more trouble to the liberated. He at last realizes the oneness of himself with God. The world no longer stands as a veil between himself and God. He has at long last gained liberation, the ultimate achievement of the purpose of bondage, the gaining of Divine Mind – Brahman.

http://www.maharishiphotos.com/lecture52.html
:)
empty-and-full
Posts: 1448
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: Unknown

Post by empty-and-full » Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:32 am

Question: what must i do to achieve liberation?

Answer: nothing, you are already THAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fx3u6HM4co
:)
Aurora
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:14 am

Post by Aurora » Sat Jun 26, 2010 9:08 am

Thank you for sharing the site, empty -and- full

with appreciation and love
~ eldyheart
dilaram

Post by dilaram » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:37 am

It is not a 'what'...'whats' appear in 'it'...

It is not an 'it'...'its' appear in 'it'...


:)
makara
Posts: 1341
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:09 am
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

Post by makara » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:02 pm

Thank s for the site e-&-f
always good to have different expressions
of the message. [ok]
Phoenix
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:55 am

Post by Phoenix » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:04 pm

empty-and-full wrote:Question: what must i do to achieve liberation?

Answer: nothing, you are already THAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fx3u6HM4co
Alternative answer.......................Wake Up. :lol:
Om Namah Shivaya. . .
I bow to the lord who abides within.
The Resurrection Body, as it were.
Libra
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:03 pm

Re: What is Liberation?

Post by Libra » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:45 pm

empty-and-full wrote:What is Liberation?


In the first place, liberation is a ...















WORD
Phoenix
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:55 am

Post by Phoenix » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:26 pm

These were the type questions I needed for all my answers.
I was so frustrated because they weren't forth comming from the Forum.
My conditioning and enculturation took over and I remained as a seeker in the dark.

All I know is how little I know.

Part XL - Analysis of Mind: Introduction Part 2

Examples, such as removing a thorn by a thorn or removing the poison in the body by controlled medicine, which by itself is harmful for the body are provided to show how deconditioning of the mind can occur with proper sAdhanA or process, which is nothing but a judicious controlled conditioning. If the truth cannot be known by any means, since all means are finite, then it must be a self-revealing and self-existing entity. However, from the Vedanta perspective, even though the truth is self-evident, and self-revealing, a conditioned mind cannot recognize the truth due to its conditioning. Therefore the mind should be processed or prepared to 'absorb' that revelation. A 'Hare-Krishna' devotee remarked, 'brains need to be brain-washed, since they are muddled with wrong concepts, which obstruct the freedom of the mind'. However, the process that cleanses and purifies the mind should be such that it should free the mind rather than recondition it. It should not take the mind from 'iron shackles to gold shackles'. In essence, the process that deconditions the mind should be self-destructive without conditioning the mind again by that very process.

In addition, if the truth is infinite and absolute, the mind that discovers the truth cannot itself be away from the truth, since nothing can be away from the absolute-infinite. That is, the mind itself should be part of the truth, since truth being infinite cannot exclude anything. Finally, the infinite cannot be made of parts (infinite, plus or minus infinite, is still infinite only). Therefore, mind cannot be part of the infinite either. Thus we have a peculiar situation, where the mind needs to discover the truth, and that truth cannot be discovered by any means since it is not an 'object', for discovery, conceptually or otherwise. In addition, since the mind is part of the truth which has no parts, the very realization of the truth should dissolve the notion of separateness of the mind from the truth. Hence the truth is sometime called 'of transcendental nature' implying that is not of the kind with which objective scientists are familiar.

Hence, the realization of the truth involves a delicate process of deconditioning the mind. This is called yoga, and requires a guide, teacher or guru (gu stands of ignorance and ru stands for the one who removes it), as emphasized by Vedanta. It is well accepted that a guide is required to do advanced research in any field of science. It is therefore understandable why Vedanta insists on guidance by a teacher who is well qualified. A teacher must be well established in the truth (brahma niShTha), and also have gone through the mental discipline needed to guide others to proceed on the pathless path. For insurance, Vedanta insists on particular time-tested methodology (called sampradAyam) so that process of deconditioning the mind occurs slowly in steps without getting locked up in the process itself. This is technically called adhyAropa apavAda. adhyAropa is the conditioning of the mind and apavAda involves deconditioning the mind in stages. Conditions or adhyAropa are superimpositions that distract the mind from seeing the truth as the truth. Since a student comes with pre-conceived notions (or a conditioned mind), the teaching involves removal of those notions (deconditioning) in steps. When the mind is pure, the self-evident and self-existing truth gets self-revealed.

Not only the truth is the pathless land, as Krishnamurthi declared, Vedanta goes one step further to indicate that the self-existent, self-conscious and infinite entity is nothing but your own self, where the seeker and the sought, or the subject and the object, merge into one infinite-existent-conscious entity. That is nirvana; that is liberation; that is mokSha; this is the Kingdom of Heaven in one’s own heart. This is what all the religions sing and glorify in various ways and is the absolute freedom from all limitations. It is the infinite eternal happiness for which one is longing, consciously or unconsciously, through various pursuits in life, whether religious or irreligious, whether holy or unholy, knowingly or unknowingly. In essence, the human mind is always seeking freedom from limitations, always wanting and desiring to reach that infinite absolute happiness, without knowing that it cannot be gained by any path or pursuit. If one examines one's mind carefully we find that our wanting mind is not happy in having what it wanted, since 'the want to have more' always remains, however much one has. Thus it rather wants to want than wants to have. That is the reflection of the conditioned state of mind.

The mind wants to be free from wanting and that desire for eternal freedom is intrinsic or inborn with the mind. It cannot but seek that unlimited happiness, though it cannot find it by any seeking. Longing for limitless freedom is inherent in all beings, but expressed more vividly in the human form, where 'conceptual thought' has reached its pinnacle by evolutionary process. Thus there is a fundamental human problem or dichotomy: he cannot but pursue a path to gain absolute inexhaustible happiness or freedom from all limitations, and he can never gain that happiness through any pursuit, since it is a path less land. This is where understanding the mind, its conditioning and how to transcend those conditionings so that the mind is ever free from all conditionings becomes important and this forms the fundamental or essential pursuit of human life.

It is interesting to note that any process of deconditioning the mind itself involves the mind or mental activity. That is, the mind itself conditions the mind, and it is also capable of deconditioning itself. Hence, Vedanta says 'mind is the problem and mind is the solution' (mana eva manushyAnAm kAraNam bandha mokshayoH - amRRitabindu Up). 'How a mind can be both the problem as well as solution to the problem' requires analysis of the problem along with analysis of the mind that creates the problem. We shall examine first the mind from various angles and address the problem of its conditioning and the solution to decondition itself to be free from its problems.

Proceed to the next essay.

Other Essays in this Section:
01. The common questions. 27. The Mind of God.
02. Search for happiness. 28. The Paradox of Space and Time.
03. Questions about Religions and God. 29. Living in the Present.
04. Belief that we are Mortal, Unhappy and Ignorant. 30. Relationless Relation.
05. You are not what you take yourself to be. 31. Concept of Ishvara or God-Hood.
06. Problem Definition. 32. Self-realization or God-realization.
07. Vedanta as pramANa. 33. Self realization - attitude of mind.
08. shravaNa, manana and nididhyAsana. 34. Consciousness and reflected consciousness.
09. Experience versus Knowledge. 35. Conscious and Unconscious Entities.
10. Who am I or what am I not? 36. Real Self and false self.
11. Ego or ahaMkAra. 37. Transmigration of Soul.
12. All about the universe. 38. Witnessing consciousness and reflected consciousness.
13. Creation according to Vedanta. 39. Analysis of Mind: Intro part 1
14. Description of brahman. 40. Analysis of Mind: Intro part 2
15. Progressive teaching method: svarUpa lakShaNa. 41. Mind and Matter: Part 1
16. Carpets and Schrödinger's Cat. 42. Mind and Matter: Part 2
17. Attribute and Substantive. 43. Classification of the Mind: Part 1
18. Does the world exist independent of an observer? 44. Classification of the Mind: Part 2
19. Brahman and the world. 45. Classification of the Mind: Part 3
20. The Cognitive Process. 46. Classification of the Mind: Part 4
21. Perception of the world. 47. Fundamental Human Problem: Part 1
22. What does negation involve? 48. Fundamental Human Problem: Part 2
23. Errors in Perception. 49. Fundamental Human Problem: Part 3
24. adhyAsa or error superimposition. 50. vAsanA-s part 1
25. What is Real? 51. vAsanA-s part 2
26. Transformation-less transformation. 52. Viewpoints of reality.

Return to list of topics in Discourses by Teachers and Writers.
See the list sorted by Topic.
See the list sorted by Author.

Some get it (awakened) by osmosis [during dialog with a teacher or one who is Self-realized] having paid their dues (purification-deconditioning of the mind to a certain degree) in a previous life...~J. Krishnamurti

I still do not find it forth comming here? I have perused the forum.

The closest to it was Leo was actively participating.
He is sorely missed.
Om Namah Shivaya. . .
I bow to the lord who abides within.
The Resurrection Body, as it were.
empty-and-full
Posts: 1448
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: Unknown

Post by empty-and-full » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:10 pm

Phoenix wrote:
empty-and-full wrote:Question: what must i do to achieve liberation?

Answer: nothing, you are already THAT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fx3u6HM4co
Alternative answer.......................Wake Up. :lol:
Wake up is just another idea...

... is there really anyone who can do that?

it seems to me there is waking up to the fact that there's no me to wake up or do anything else for that matter...
:)
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:38 pm

Phoenix wrote:These were the type questions I needed for all my answers.
I was so frustrated because they weren't forth comming from the Forum.
My conditioning and enculturation took over and I remained as a seeker in the dark.

All I know is how little I know.

Part XL - Analysis of Mind: Introduction Part 2

Examples, such as removing a thorn by a thorn or removing the poison in the body by controlled medicine, which by itself is harmful for the body are provided to show how deconditioning of the mind can occur with proper sAdhanA or process, which is nothing but a judicious controlled conditioning. If the truth cannot be known by any means, since all means are finite, then it must be a self-revealing and self-existing entity. However, from the Vedanta perspective, even though the truth is self-evident, and self-revealing, a conditioned mind cannot recognize the truth due to its conditioning. Therefore the mind should be processed or prepared to 'absorb' that revelation. A 'Hare-Krishna' devotee remarked, 'brains need to be brain-washed, since they are muddled with wrong concepts, which obstruct the freedom of the mind'. However, the process that cleanses and purifies the mind should be such that it should free the mind rather than recondition it. It should not take the mind from 'iron shackles to gold shackles'. In essence, the process that deconditions the mind should be self-destructive without conditioning the mind again by that very process.

In addition, if the truth is infinite and absolute, the mind that discovers the truth cannot itself be away from the truth, since nothing can be away from the absolute-infinite. That is, the mind itself should be part of the truth, since truth being infinite cannot exclude anything. Finally, the infinite cannot be made of parts (infinite, plus or minus infinite, is still infinite only). Therefore, mind cannot be part of the infinite either. Thus we have a peculiar situation, where the mind needs to discover the truth, and that truth cannot be discovered by any means since it is not an 'object', for discovery, conceptually or otherwise. In addition, since the mind is part of the truth which has no parts, the very realization of the truth should dissolve the notion of separateness of the mind from the truth. Hence the truth is sometime called 'of transcendental nature' implying that is not of the kind with which objective scientists are familiar.

Hence, the realization of the truth involves a delicate process of deconditioning the mind. This is called yoga, and requires a guide, teacher or guru (gu stands of ignorance and ru stands for the one who removes it), as emphasized by Vedanta. It is well accepted that a guide is required to do advanced research in any field of science. It is therefore understandable why Vedanta insists on guidance by a teacher who is well qualified. A teacher must be well established in the truth (brahma niShTha), and also have gone through the mental discipline needed to guide others to proceed on the pathless path. For insurance, Vedanta insists on particular time-tested methodology (called sampradAyam) so that process of deconditioning the mind occurs slowly in steps without getting locked up in the process itself. This is technically called adhyAropa apavAda. adhyAropa is the conditioning of the mind and apavAda involves deconditioning the mind in stages. Conditions or adhyAropa are superimpositions that distract the mind from seeing the truth as the truth. Since a student comes with pre-conceived notions (or a conditioned mind), the teaching involves removal of those notions (deconditioning) in steps. When the mind is pure, the self-evident and self-existing truth gets self-revealed.

Not only the truth is the pathless land, as Krishnamurthi declared, Vedanta goes one step further to indicate that the self-existent, self-conscious and infinite entity is nothing but your own self, where the seeker and the sought, or the subject and the object, merge into one infinite-existent-conscious entity. That is nirvana; that is liberation; that is mokSha; this is the Kingdom of Heaven in one’s own heart. This is what all the religions sing and glorify in various ways and is the absolute freedom from all limitations. It is the infinite eternal happiness for which one is longing, consciously or unconsciously, through various pursuits in life, whether religious or irreligious, whether holy or unholy, knowingly or unknowingly. In essence, the human mind is always seeking freedom from limitations, always wanting and desiring to reach that infinite absolute happiness, without knowing that it cannot be gained by any path or pursuit. If one examines one's mind carefully we find that our wanting mind is not happy in having what it wanted, since 'the want to have more' always remains, however much one has. Thus it rather wants to want than wants to have. That is the reflection of the conditioned state of mind.

The mind wants to be free from wanting and that desire for eternal freedom is intrinsic or inborn with the mind. It cannot but seek that unlimited happiness, though it cannot find it by any seeking. Longing for limitless freedom is inherent in all beings, but expressed more vividly in the human form, where 'conceptual thought' has reached its pinnacle by evolutionary process. Thus there is a fundamental human problem or dichotomy: he cannot but pursue a path to gain absolute inexhaustible happiness or freedom from all limitations, and he can never gain that happiness through any pursuit, since it is a path less land. This is where understanding the mind, its conditioning and how to transcend those conditionings so that the mind is ever free from all conditionings becomes important and this forms the fundamental or essential pursuit of human life.

It is interesting to note that any process of deconditioning the mind itself involves the mind or mental activity. That is, the mind itself conditions the mind, and it is also capable of deconditioning itself. Hence, Vedanta says 'mind is the problem and mind is the solution' (mana eva manushyAnAm kAraNam bandha mokshayoH - amRRitabindu Up). 'How a mind can be both the problem as well as solution to the problem' requires analysis of the problem along with analysis of the mind that creates the problem. We shall examine first the mind from various angles and address the problem of its conditioning and the solution to decondition itself to be free from its problems.

Proceed to the next essay.

Other Essays in this Section:
01. The common questions. 27. The Mind of God.
02. Search for happiness. 28. The Paradox of Space and Time.
03. Questions about Religions and God. 29. Living in the Present.
04. Belief that we are Mortal, Unhappy and Ignorant. 30. Relationless Relation.
05. You are not what you take yourself to be. 31. Concept of Ishvara or God-Hood.
06. Problem Definition. 32. Self-realization or God-realization.
07. Vedanta as pramANa. 33. Self realization - attitude of mind.
08. shravaNa, manana and nididhyAsana. 34. Consciousness and reflected consciousness.
09. Experience versus Knowledge. 35. Conscious and Unconscious Entities.
10. Who am I or what am I not? 36. Real Self and false self.
11. Ego or ahaMkAra. 37. Transmigration of Soul.
12. All about the universe. 38. Witnessing consciousness and reflected consciousness.
13. Creation according to Vedanta. 39. Analysis of Mind: Intro part 1
14. Description of brahman. 40. Analysis of Mind: Intro part 2
15. Progressive teaching method: svarUpa lakShaNa. 41. Mind and Matter: Part 1
16. Carpets and Schrödinger's Cat. 42. Mind and Matter: Part 2
17. Attribute and Substantive. 43. Classification of the Mind: Part 1
18. Does the world exist independent of an observer? 44. Classification of the Mind: Part 2
19. Brahman and the world. 45. Classification of the Mind: Part 3
20. The Cognitive Process. 46. Classification of the Mind: Part 4
21. Perception of the world. 47. Fundamental Human Problem: Part 1
22. What does negation involve? 48. Fundamental Human Problem: Part 2
23. Errors in Perception. 49. Fundamental Human Problem: Part 3
24. adhyAsa or error superimposition. 50. vAsanA-s part 1
25. What is Real? 51. vAsanA-s part 2
26. Transformation-less transformation. 52. Viewpoints of reality.

Return to list of topics in Discourses by Teachers and Writers.
See the list sorted by Topic.
See the list sorted by Author.

Some get it (awakened) by osmosis [during dialog with a teacher or one who is Self-realized] having paid their dues (purification-deconditioning of the mind to a certain degree) in a previous life...~J. Krishnamurti

I still do not find it forth comming here? I have perused the forum.

The closest to it was Leo was actively participating.
He is sorely missed.


Mind is a tarbaby
caught in the sun.
Ideas are feathers
caught in the wind
makara
Posts: 1341
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:09 am
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

Post by makara » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:37 am

it seems to me there is waking up to the fact that there's no me to wake up or do anything else for that matter...
Well put e-&-f
it does it for this bum (body und mind).

Mind is a tarbaby
caught in the sun.
Ideas are feathers
caught in the wind
=D>
One more from our very own
poet laureate!
myamberdog
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:17 pm
Location: West Coast Desert

Post by myamberdog » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:09 pm

All I know is how little I know



Phoenix - i was so on the same page as you
when you said this....then you gave me a headache
with your follow up....guess I'm in intellectual shut-down
mode with all these spiritual knives dicing up the Truth
here in Leo's free-for-all of a kitchen....

I usually stick to washing the dishes....hmmmm....
wonder how that crosses over into my food example
above.......

that being said, I do "apparently" nibble at times.....



NoParrotInThisPooch
myamberdog
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:11 pm

myamberdog wrote:All I know is how little I know






Knowing even that puts a brick in your back pocket.
myamberdog
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:17 pm
Location: West Coast Desert

Post by myamberdog » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:37 pm

enough of your bric-a-brac....
hugs and bullets
is all I want
from
you!



Dogaliscious
myamberdog
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:47 pm

myamberdog wrote:enough of your bric-a-brac....
hugs and bullets
is all I want
from
you!



Dogaliscious



I have a gun.
I can finish you off......anytime I want.
But then you would move softly inside
and dissolve into who I am.......
.....and you wouldn't be
out there in the dream
for me to play with.
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