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It's Time
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: It's Time Reply with quote

It is consciousness itself that becomes bound in self-referential thoughts and in its desperate and always futile attempt to maintain the resulting illusory entity.....appears to suffer the pain if isolation.

Any 'waking up' has to occur in consciousness.....since the entity simply does not exist.


toombaru
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michael



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consciousness knows/senses meaning, feelings and other sensations as they arise.

The above words are really a tautology... for 'sensing/knowing' is not something 'consciousness' does... 'sensing/knowing' 'is' 'consciousness' and 'consciousness' 'is' 'sensing/knowing'.

The words are also in adverted commas because they cannot be 'understood'... they are simply 'self evident'.

Consciousness is never in doubt/error about the sensations and meaning arising each moment.

In one moment, these may convey a sense of being a separate person (perhaps DaveK) suffering in some way, as 'meaning' manifests as 'thoughts and memories' of a person suffering.

In one moment, the sensations and meaning arising may convey the impression that life is seen from the perspective of another person (perhaps 'leo') or from the perspective of 'DaveK' at 'another time'... in these cases without any 'sense/knowing' that there is a separate person.

It is like 'waking in a lucid dream', seeing it 'as a dream'. But of course nothing has 'woken'. The apparent dream is simply the content of awareness as it arises. And as it arises, it is sensed/known to be what it appears to be.

Whatever the apparent content, consciousness remains unchanged... unbound, ever free.

All that seems to have changed are the momentary sensations and meaning in awareness. These are immediately known to be what they are as they arise. And the impression they convey is of 'Awakening to the Dream'... or whatever else it is that they convey this moment.

In one moment, no sensations or meaning arising.

Silence, nothing apparent. No odours, no flavours, no feelings.

Of this there is no memory... no thing, no experience to be remembered. In this 'state' there are no sensations or meaning arising in awareness to manifest 'memory'.

Whatever, the content, or lack of content arising, consciousness is aware of the moment... neither sleeping nor awake, but after all inexpressible.

And as for the 'moment', this too exists only in relation to the appearance of sensation. In the absence of sensations arising, there are no moments. All is ever unchanged.

Unsensed and Unknown, here it is (as these words are read)... without doubt.

Love
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fox



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"...It is like 'waking in a lucid dream', seeing it 'as a dream'..."


From a dream, you wake into a lucid dream.

From a lucid dream, you wake into a Question



Question
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nemo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can't "wake" from lucid living
wake iinto what? anything perceived, felt or thought is more of the dream.
so "you" a mirage, cannot awaken out of the mirage.
But, you can "know" with certainty that what you truly are is beyond the mirage, even though you can't experience it.
Perhaps by recognizing/realizing (somehow) beyond perception and conceptualization, that you are not the mirage.
odd huh?
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemo wrote:
you can't "wake" from lucid living
wake iinto what? anything perceived, felt or thought is more of the dream.
so "you" a mirage, cannot awaken out of the mirage.
But, you can "know" with certainty that what you truly are is beyond the mirage, even though you can't experience it.
Perhaps by recognizing/realizing (somehow) beyond perception and conceptualization, that you are not the mirage.
odd huh?








Consciousness........is not different from the content of consciousness,



toomaru
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nemo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is before consciousness?

If I am asleep (and not dreaming) I am not conscious,
yet, I awaken
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nemo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what i am talking about precedes and is the source of consciousness
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemo wrote:
what i am talking about precedes and is the source of consciousness



Nothing precedes consciousness.


toombaru
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemo wrote:
what is before consciousness?

If I am asleep (and not dreaming) I am not conscious,
yet, I awaken



No one is asleep.

No one awakens.

toombaru
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nemo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
nemo wrote:
what i am talking about precedes and is the source of consciousness



Nothing precedes consciousness.


toombaru


and you know this for a fact...how?
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nemo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"you say tomAto and I say tomato, you say potAtoe and I say potato, tomAto, tomato, potAtoe, potatoe..
let's call the whole thing off"

with thanks to fred astaire
who doesn't exist either Razz
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemo wrote:
toombaru wrote:
nemo wrote:
what i am talking about precedes and is the source of consciousness



Nothing precedes consciousness.


toombaru


and you know this for a fact...how?






No "thing" precedes consciousness.

toombaru
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nemo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

got it - absolutely agreed - no "THING" precedes consciousness

yet, consciousness is preceded

by nothing
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemo wrote:
got it - absolutely agreed - no "THING" precedes consciousness

yet, consciousness is preceded

by nothing





Well...............that's about as close as 'you' can get to a black hole.


Laughing



toombaru
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nemo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL
Razz

Well put - excellent

just peeking over the event horizoin

And no thing makes it through a black hole
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