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This animation explains it all!
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awakening
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fox wrote:
Quote:
if michael and fox were to seemingly meet
neither michael nor fox would know of the meeting
for they are simply images, feelings and sounds and odours and flavours and ideas arising


But wouldn't IT know about the meeting, in 'my case' seen through a body-mind called fox, apparently, there are other body-minds like Michael's body mind...and IT experiences the meeting as Michael.

I am IT. (Advaita suggests... Smile )

But IT always only experiences meetings AS fox-body-mind.

Why?


Look at the (your) title and animation at the beginning of this thread.
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michael



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fox wrote:
Quote:
if michael and fox were to seemingly meet
neither michael nor fox would know of the meeting
for they are simply images, feelings and sounds and odours and flavours and ideas arising


But wouldn't IT know about the meeting, in 'my case' seen through a body-mind called fox, apparently, there are other body-minds like Michael's body mind...and IT experiences the meeting as Michael.

I am IT. (Advaita suggests... Smile )

But IT always only experiences meetings AS fox-body-mind.

Why?


lets say you eat an ice cream
and later a chili...

... as you are tasting the 'ice cream'
... you are not tasting the 'chili'

or lets say you are seeing the 'sunset'
and then (apparently) turning around, you see the 'light reflected off the clouds'…

... as you are seeing the ‘sunset’
... you are not seeing the ‘reflected light’

or lets say you are listening to 'Madonna'
and then to the 'Backstreet Boys'...

... as you are hearing ’Madonna’
... you are not hearing the ‘Backstreet Boys’

or lets say you seem to be 'fox meeting michael'
and then you seem to be 'michael meeting fox'

... as you experience all the sensations that are named
‘fox meeting michael’ (the feel of the 'hug, the look
of 'fox’s arms hugging michael’s body', and so on

.... you are not experiencing the sensations that are named
‘michael meeting fox’

...

... and as you experience all the sensations that are named
‘michael meeting fox’

... you are not experiencing the sensations that are named
‘fox meeting michael’

this 'you' that experiences...

is not the taste of the 'ice cream', nor the 'chili'
is not the appearance of the 'sunset', nor the 'reflected light'
is not the sounds of 'Madonna', nor the 'Backstreet Boys'
is not the feelings and image and other sensations of 'fox', nor of 'michael'...

sensations (flavours, colours, sounds, feelings, odours) 'rise and fall'...
together with 'names' of 'what' the sensations represent...

creating the 'momentary' appearance of an 'ever changing world full of things experienced by me (a named person)'

though the 'momentary appearance' is not separate from you
it is not who you are...

it is only who you seem to be...

as one experience arises
by its very nature it excludes every other possible experience

as it appears 'I am fox doing so and so'
all other possible experiences are excluded.

while seeming to be fox, it is impossible to also seem to be michael or any one else.

a flavour arises... it is named 'ice cream'
another flavour arises... it is named 'chili'

the flavour is not the name
and the name is not the flavour

nor is the name the 'written word'...

it is the meaning of the word
this meaning cannot be 'sensed' or even 'conceptualized'...

it can only be known…

the ‘meaning’ is the 'thing' itself

there is no 'thing' apart from this that is known

...

a set of sensations arise... it is named 'fox meeting michael'
another set of sensations arise... it is named 'michael meeting fox'

the sensations are not the name
and the name is not the sensations

the name is not the words:
'ice cream', 'chili', 'sunset', 'reflected light', 'Madonna', 'Backstreet Boys', 'fox', 'michael', or 'hug', or 'fox meeting michael', or 'michael meeting fox'...

the meaning of these 'things' is known
inseparable from the knowing...

these 'things' are not

this seeing hearing feeling tasting smelling and knowing
that is
now
here
without doubt
without theory

this that experiences every experience
is this
that now reads these very words...

knowing their meaning...

with an intimacy that is beyond all meaning...

Love
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Last edited by michael on Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:40 am; edited 8 times in total
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michael



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

previous post changed...

whether it is more or less clear...

whonowz... smile

Love
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michael



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fox wrote:
But IT always only experiences meetings AS fox-body-mind

Why?


always?

only?

of course this 'fox experience' is the only experience as it is experienced...

but what a little 'flicker of light' this 'whole life of fox' is within this eternal void...

countless are the faces of God...

Love
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fox



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
always?

only?

of course this 'fox experience' is the only experience as it is experienced...

but what a little 'flicker of light' this 'whole life of fox' is within this eternal void...

countless are the faces of God...

Love


Hmmm... at least as far as "" i "" can remember...

only with the help of the holy medicine, I sometimes appear to 'be somebody else'...but..hmmmm....

Confused
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michael



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fox wrote:
Quote:
always?

only?

of course this 'fox experience' is the only experience as it is experienced...

but what a little 'flicker of light' this 'whole life of fox' is within this eternal void...

countless are the faces of God...

Love


Hmmm... at least as far as "" i "" can remember...

only with the help of the holy medicine, I sometimes appear to 'be somebody else'...but..hmmmm....

Confused


the sense of an " ""i"" remembering only being fox" IS the memory

this ""i"" can never BE "someone else"...

that is like asking a "bear" to BE a "fish"... smile

but just as an actor can put on different masks and say different lines and move differently and so appear to be different people...

so One/No-One 'puts on' different 'life experiences'

and just as an actor can only appear to be one character at a time
so One/No-One only ever seems to be one person at a time...

as one mask is 'put on', there are no other masks being experienced...

as One/No-One appears to be 'fox the child' or 'fox the adult' or 'fox the old man'... each experience stands on its own...

each apparent moment!

as One/No-One momentarily seems to be 'fox'... that is the only experience

as One/No-One momentarily seems to be 'leo'... that is the only experience

as One/No-One momentarily seems to be 'maple' or 'michael' or 'sara' or 'jeff' or 'hoopla' or 'toombaru' or...

each momentary experience by itself is the only experience

as one experience appears all others are not

all experience is by its very nature 'sequential'...

yet it is not possible to say that one experience is 'before' or 'after' any other...

for every experience appears in this timeless now...
wherein all possible experiences are already known... ever unchanged

all that changes is the momentary rise and fall of sensations
giving apparent substance to this that is known

as sensations rise, it appears 'I am fox reading words typed by michael'...

this knowing "I am fox reading words typed by michael" did not come to be known in the fleeting apparent moment (as these colours arise to give apparent form to these words)...

nor does this knowing "I am fox reading words typed by michael" cease simply because the coloured image changes to some other appearance

this knowing "I am fox reading words typed by michael" is always known

this knowing is itself 'unknowable'

it is "like" (not in 'form' but in 'relation') the software on a video disk... the software that creates the images on the screen is nothing like the images (it cannot be seen, it is unchanging), yet it is the 'source' of the 'rules' that create the changing images that can be seen.

so yes, in one respect
One/No-One ever knows all that fox (and every other person/thing)'is' - during all times and in all places...

however, this 'knowing' cannot be experienced via the senses 'all at once'...
just as it is not possible to see all possible images on the video screen all at once (even though they are all already on the disk)...

though these known 'things' are not separate from One/No-one
they do not define
who One/No-One is...

Love
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fox



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but just as an actor can put on different masks and say different lines and move differently and so appear to be different people...

so One/No-One 'puts on' different 'life experiences'



So you mean, IT will put on the Michael-mask 'later' ?
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McB



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
So you mean, IT will put on the Michael-mask 'later' ?

Fox, there is no "later" for IT!!

Michael, what you have expressed so elegantly as usual is easily seen to be so true by anyone who really looks honestly and objectively at their own experience. In the knowing "I am XX meeting YYY" the "I" has never known itself as other than XX, and we are not talking about re-incarnation here!!

What I find interesting however is that while "fox meeting Michael" or "Michael meeting fox" are both indeed possibilities which may or may not happen, it seems highly unlikely that "fox meeting Caesar" or "Michael meeting Mao Tse Tung" will happen. "Brutus met Caesar" and "Mr Chen met Mao Tse Tung" but not Michael or Fox!! Why is that?

Love
McB
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michael



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McB wrote:
Fox wrote:
So you mean, IT will put on the Michael-mask 'later' ?

Fox, there is no "later" for IT!!

Michael, what you have expressed so elegantly as usual is easily seen to be so true by anyone who really looks honestly and objectively at their own experience. In the knowing "I am XX meeting YYY" the "I" has never known itself as other than XX, and we are not talking about re-incarnation here!!

What I find interesting however is that while "fox meeting Michael" or "Michael meeting fox" are both indeed possibilities which may or may not happen, it seems highly unlikely that "fox meeting Caesar" or "Michael meeting Mao Tse Tung" will happen. "Brutus met Caesar" and "Mr Chen met Mao Tse Tung" but not Michael or Fox!! Why is that?

Love
McB


here is what arises in response...

there is absolutely no ‘thing’ or ‘power’ or ‘condition’ preventing any of these 'meetings' from being experienced this instant.. for all ‘possibilities’ already are…

(there really is no actual 'instant'...
the 'instant' appears only as the senses rise in concord with the knowing)

these ‘possibilities’ are limited only by ‘logical impossibilities’ such as: 'two different things being the same’.

If it can be imagined… it is a ‘possibility’.



as you say...

there is no 'later'...

no meeting ever actually 'happens'…

it takes less than the twinkle of an eye... smile

and the senses dance...

'projecting' the experience…
so it seems 'I am fox meeting Caeser'

and in a 'twinkle'... instantly…

it seems 'I am Caeser meeting fox'...

from the perspective of ‘fox’ or ‘Caeser’ in this ‘world story’ there is no memory of this meeting…

for the meeting is not part of this ‘world story'...



the experience remembered as happening ‘yesterday’ did not happen ‘yesterday’, or that remembered as happening ‘10 minutes ago’, or ‘a minute ago’ did not happen ‘10 minutes ago’, or ‘one minute ago’…

it is not possible to say ‘when’ any experience arises…



the story already is…

the story has a ‘time’ and ‘place’ and ‘players’ and ‘plot’ and ‘sequence’.

as a book may be picked up and put down and re-read at any page to any page…

so there is no ‘necessity’ requiring any experience to be experienced
in any sequence…
for any ‘period’…
in any story…

this world story is by ‘choice’ experienced from all perspectives…

this ‘choice’ is new every 'instant'… for every 'instant' is entirely ‘unconditioned’...

which is to say every experience is experienced by choice…

choice is the same as power…

and cannot be sensed or known…

it is not a smell or colour or flavour or feeling or sound or concept

it is identical with consciousness

close ‘your eyes’ and the world disappears
open ‘your eyes’ and the world appears again

no ‘eye’ sees…

the colours seen forming the shapes of the apparent objects are not on the ‘surface’ of any ‘objects’…

these colours are inseparable from the seeing…
neither near nor far…

impossible to say ‘what’ ‘seeing colours’ 'is'…



notice that when a bell is stuck, the image seen is not the cause of the sound heard…

yet the colours and sounds dance with each other and every sense in perfect concord with the knowing…

creating the instant ‘experience’… memories and all…

any experience of numberless worlds from numberless perspectives…

instantly…

this is power…

Love
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empty-and-full



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael, I love your posts, they "sing" to me.

The only thing I would like to add is that this is all a complete mystery to me and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I love it this way.
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Many Of One



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If 'all possibilities already are...' what is choice other than an experience?
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michael



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's because...

it is a complete mystery...

to the senses and the knowing... smile

for the 'nature' of this that is and is not
cannot be sensed or known

though all changing colours arise in this…
this that is 'abiding seeing' is colourless/invisible

though all changing sounds arise in this…
this that is 'abiding hearing' is soundless

though all changing flavours arise in this…
this that is 'abiding tasting' is flavourless

though all changing odours arise in this…
this that is 'abiding smelling' is odourless

though all changing feelings and emotions arise in this…
this that is 'abiding feeling' is intangible

though all meaning/concepts are remembered in this…
this that is 'abiding knowing' cannot be conceived of...

it is not a mystery to 'me'...

simply because there is no 'me' for it to be a mystery to
and any apparent 'me' is not aware of anything…
let alone this wonder full mystery...

this power that plays with the senses and the knowing is inseparable from the senses and the knowing
but they can never sense or know it
for it is has no colour
it is silent and odourless
and without taste
it is intangible…

inconceivable

and yet it 'knows' all these intimately

playing with them for its own delight...
which is their delight...

both 'good' and 'bad'!

completely One...

Love
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Last edited by michael on Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:12 am; edited 3 times in total
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michael



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many Of One wrote:
If 'all possibilities already are...' what is choice other than an experience?


yes... the choice is this experience now... or not

'which' experience of numberless perspectives 'within' numberless 'worlds'... this 'instant'... is completely unconditioned
completely free...

the choice is evident in the experience...

Love
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fox



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
these ‘possibilities’ are limited only by ‘logical impossibilities’ such as: 'two different things being the same’.

If it can be imagined… it is a ‘possibility’.


So if IT imagines up a visit between fox and Kleopatra - it will happen (of course it will happen outside of time)

Will this imagination happen?
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danny



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a little off-topic, but i thought you might like this song, fox...

it's belle & sebastian- 'fox in the snow'... no idea what the video is of, haven't watched it... appears to be a film of a supermarket... indeed, yes, how incredibly exciting! wait till you catch the dramatic ending! just kidding...

it's a lovely song though...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WtlZbigiC8E&mode=related&search=

.
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