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Fundamental Reality
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:03 pm    Post subject: Fundamental Reality Reply with quote

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:59 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

notice that all the words spoken about 'matter' are just 'ideas'...

no physicist believes that their equations are 'matter'... they refer to them as 'idealizations' (ideas)...

the equations of 'physics' are based in 'number'... they express only numerical relations between 'things' (particles)... again no 'physicist' regards the 'particles' they study as 'actual things' these too are recognised as 'idealizations'... the 'form' of these 'particles' are expressed as having certain 'numerical' attributes: 'mass' and 'spin' and 'colour'... these are just 'names'... they are not 'the reality'... all are 'ideas'...

'science' apparently 'works' because the equations express behaviour of apparent objects' observed on apparent apparatus...

apparent in awareness (as I seem to a scientist looking at his or her apparatus...

all that are seen is these coloured patterns which (as noted in a previous post)... even science says are 'immaterial'!!!

it is like (though not 'like' at all) a person looking at a computer screen and working out the numerical dimensions and relations between the apparent objects on the screen...

in the example just cited, the equations apparently 'work' because the appearances on the computer screen are generated according to 'numerical rules'...

this much can be said about the 'observed universe'... that (given the numerical equations of science mimic the attributes and behaviour of all apparent 'forms')... at base... it is founded in 'number'...

there is a saying amongst some physicists that 'number' is the language of God... smile

number' is a pure idea...

beyond this nothing can be said...

all the rest that is 'meaningful' about the universe... is based on other 'ideas'... that this shape is a 'tree' and that shape a 'person'... all 'ideas'...

without any 'idea' of 'what' a 'thing' 'is'... it is seen as 'nothing at all'... or the general idea of 'thing' is applied to the form...

trying to imply 'substance' or taking the equations as representing anything at all about what 'gives rise to the appearances'... about the nature of 'fundamental reality'... is like ('though not 'like' at all) someone claiming they can determine the 'workings' of a computer by looking at the images on the screen...

Love
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'number' says nothing at all about Consciousness... except that 'Consciousness knows number'...

but what is Consciousness, and what is number... what is seeing and what is colour and hearing and sounds and smelling and odour and tasting and flavour and feeling and feelings and knowing and form and meaning and power and controlling... of this I have no idea at all...

yet plainly

I am...

I just don't know 'what' 'I am'...

but

This very awareness...

Live
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michael



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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in knowing number... I know Consciousness knows number
in knowing form... I know Consciousness knows form
in knowng meaning... I know Consciousness knows meaning...

'what' are number form and meaning 'in essence'... no idea at all!

in seeing colours... I know Consciousness sees colours

'what' are seeing colours 'in essence'... no idea at all!

same for all senses and sensations...

as I sense all sensations... I know Consciousness senses sensations...

for I am Conscious

beyond this... I know nothing at all...

Love
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empty-and-full



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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
for I am Conscious

beyond this... I know nothing at all...


who is this "I" that is conscious? Rolling Eyes
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Phoenix



Joined: 14 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="empty-and-full"]
Quote:
for I am Conscious

beyond this... I know nothing at all...


Conscience and conscious are not synonymous.
One is a noun the other an adjective.
Not unlike known and knowing.
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michael



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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

empty-and-full wrote:
Quote:
for I am Conscious

beyond this... I know nothing at all...


who is this "I" that is conscious? Rolling Eyes


buggered if I know... grin...

that's the point(ing)... any idea about 'I' is just that... an idea... it has no bearing at all on This...

the word 'I' is not used to convey any meaning at all... it is a 'pure pointer'... like the word 'seeing'... just as 'seeing' cannot be defined, or explained... so 'I' is 'unknowable'...

and yet how plain...

is 'This Consciousness'...

Love
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empty-and-full



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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:
empty-and-full wrote:
Quote:
for I am Conscious

beyond this... I know nothing at all...


who is this "I" that is conscious? Rolling Eyes


buggered if I know... grin...

that's the point(ing)... any idea about 'I' is just that... an idea... it has no bearing at all on This...

the word 'I' is not used to convey any meaning at all... it is a 'pure pointer'... like the word 'seeing'... just as 'seeing' cannot be defined, or explained... so 'I' is 'unknowable'...

and yet how plain...

is 'This Consciousness'...

Love


ok, so i'm just "this consciousness"

but how can i use this to my advantage? Rolling Eyes
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makara



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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ok, so i'm just "this consciousness"

but how can i use this to my advantage?

aha! what a wonderful question e-&-f
this one is looking forward to answers! Wink
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michael



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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

empty-and-full wrote:
michael wrote:
empty-and-full wrote:
Quote:
for I am Conscious

beyond this... I know nothing at all...


who is this "I" that is conscious? Rolling Eyes


buggered if I know... grin...

that's the point(ing)... any idea about 'I' is just that... an idea... it has no bearing at all on This...

the word 'I' is not used to convey any meaning at all... it is a 'pure pointer'... like the word 'seeing'... just as 'seeing' cannot be defined, or explained... so 'I' is 'unknowable'...

and yet how plain...

is 'This Consciousness'...

Love


ok, so i'm just "this consciousness"

but how can i use this to my advantage? Rolling Eyes


'you' can't...

and 'I' am already using This... to This's advantage'...grin

though its all just show...

how could 'you' or 'I' possibly improve on 'perfection'... smile

Love
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makara



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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
'you' can't...

Boo ....
we want New & Improved consciousness,
consciousness with protection from plaque,
the latest consciousness,
Saville Row consciousness,
consciousness that can strut,
fully imported, better engineered consciousness.


Razz
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
'you' can't...

Boo ....
we want New & Improved consciousness,
consciousness with protection from plaque,
the latest consciousness,
Saville Row consciousness,
consciousness that can strut,
fully imported, better engineered consciousness.


Razz


ahhh.. dear makara... that version's been around for a while...

problem is...

you'll never get to experience it...

for One very good reason... smile

Love
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empty-and-full



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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
ok, so i'm just "this consciousness"

but how can i use this to my advantage?

aha! what a wonderful question e-&-f
this one is looking forward to answers! Wink


when I asked the question it was like asking this question:

"what is the sound of a one hand clap"

because the one that would have an advantage is being seen as a simple thought, as a delusion

and the question itself is part and parcel of that separate sense of self

which is curious really, because even though it's seen through it has no problem popping up now and then and reasserting itself Rolling Eyes
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michael



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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

empty-and-full wrote:
makara wrote:
Quote:
ok, so i'm just "this consciousness"

but how can i use this to my advantage?

aha! what a wonderful question e-&-f
this one is looking forward to answers! Wink


when I asked the question it was like asking this question:

"what is the sound of a one hand clap"

because the one that would have an advantage is being seen as a simple thought, as a delusion

and the question itself is part and parcel of that separate sense of self

which is curious really, because even though it's seen through it has no problem popping up now and then and reasserting itself Rolling Eyes


so it seems...

as though a 'thought' is the product of a 'mind'... which has a mind of its own...

when it is only a thought...

appearing only for the purpose of telling this story...

there is no separate power driving the appearance of 'thoughts' (or any other appearance)...

This alone is Power...

Love
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makara



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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
that version's been around for a while..

Then clearly it's not new!

M wrote:
Quote:
and 'I' am already using This... to This's advantage'...grin

And I wish he'd written instead:
Quote:
buggered if I know... grin...
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empty-and-full



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PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This alone is Power...


well said Michael Very Happy

am I the thought

or am I the aware presence in which the thought appears Rolling Eyes
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