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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
All right - let's be supportive for a moment and
understand what brianpeter was expressing.
How would you have expressed it?
('It' being that the man who sat down
was now beyond thinking)



The "man" emerges within the thinking.
There is no such thing as a still mind.
The Buddha said that in his "realization" nothing happened.


Mind is movement.
Mind imagines that it can stop itself through its own efforts and that it will somehow benefit from that activity.

Meditation can calm the mind and give it a little respite from the incessant roof-brain chatter but it is not a path to what the mind imagines to be its own transcendence.
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makara



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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Buddha said that in his "realization" nothing happened.

And yet, according to the story which I have no reason to distrust,
an unconscious man sat down
and an awakened man stood up.
Not to quibble with words but there appears to be
a difference of 'state' between he who sat down
and he who arose.
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
The Buddha said that in his "realization" nothing happened.

And yet, according to the story which I have no reason to distrust,
an unconscious man sat down
and an awakened man stood up.
Not to quibble with words but there appears to be
a difference of 'state' between he who sat down
and he who arose.





There are not two state.
A man cannot awaken.
There can be a sense of self and a generalized globality that are antithetical to each other.
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makara



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Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn words.
All right then.
An unconscious being sat down.
The being who stood up says that "no - thing happened"
and as we know, 'no thing' can be everything.
So how to describe what happened to the being who
sat down? That being certainly did not have
the knowledge possessed by the one who stood up.
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Damn words.
All right then.
An unconscious being sat down.
The being who stood up says that "no - thing happened"
and as we know, 'no thing' can be everything.
So how to describe what happened to the being who
sat down? That being certainly did not have
the knowledge possessed by the one who stood up.





The one who sat down evaporated and there are no words for that which stood up.
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makara



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Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
evaporated

Since what's his name saw Buddha just after he left
the tree and what's her name brought milk and honey
can i presume T that you mean 'identity evaporated?'
i'e he stopped identifiying as Siddartha the man.
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Phoenix



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Posts: 506

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
makara wrote:
Damn words.
All right then.
An unconscious being sat down.
The being who stood up says that "no - thing happened"
and as we know, 'no thing' can be everything.
So how to describe what happened to the being who
sat down? That being certainly did not have
the knowledge possessed by the one who stood up.





The one who sat down evaporated and there are no words for that which stood up.


Stream of consciousness
Stream of consciousness is a method of narrative representation of "random" thoughts which follow in a freely-flowing style.

Contents [hide]
1 Definition
2 Examples
3 Critical Debates
4 Related Terms
5 References


Definition
Primarily associated with the modernist movement, stream of consciousness is a form of interior monologue which claims as its goal the representation of a lead consciousness in a narrative (typically fiction). This representation of consciousness can include perceptions or impressions, thoughts incited by outside sensory stimuli, and fragments of random, disconnected thoughts. Stream of consciousness writing often lacks "correct" punctuation or syntax, favoring a looser, more incomplete style.

The coining of the term has generally been credited to the American psychologist William James, older brother of novelist Henry James. It was used originally by psychologists in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries to describe the personal awareness of one’s mental processes. In The Principles of Psychology, Chapter IX, The Stream of Thought, James provides a phenomenological description of this sense-ation of consciousness: “Consciousness, then, does not appear to itself chopped up in bits. Such words as ‘chain’ or ‘train’ do not describe it fitly as it presents itself in the first instance. It is nothing jointed; it flows. A ‘river’ or a ‘stream’ are the metaphors by which it is most naturally described. In talking of it hereafter let us call it the stream of thought, of consciousness, or of subjective life” (239) [emphasis in the original]. It is helpful at the outset to distinguish stream of consciousness from free association. Stream of consciousness, from a psychological perspective, describes metaphorically the phenomenon—the continuous and contiguous flow of sensations, impressions, images, memories and thoughts—experienced by each person, at all levels of consciousness, and which is generally associated with each person’s subjectivity, or sense of self. Free association, on the other hand, is a process in which apparently random data collected by a subject allow connections to be made from the unconscious, subconscious and preconscious mind(s) to the conscious mind of that subject. Translated and mapped to the space of narrative literatures, free association can be one textual element used to signify the stream of consciousness.

As a literary term, stream of consciousness appears in the early twentieth century at the intersection of three apparently disparate projects: the developing science of psychology (e.g., investigations of the forms and manifestations of consciousness, as elaborated by Freud, Jung, James, and others), the continuing speculations of western philosophy as to the nature of being (e.g., investigations of consciousness in time by Henri Bergson), and reactionary forces in the arts which were turning away from realism in the late nineteenth century in favor of exploration of a personal, self-conscious subjectivity. The psychological term was appropriated to describe a particular style of novel, or technique of characterization that was prevalent in some fictional works. This technique relied upon the mimetic (re)presentation of the mind of a character and dramatized the full range of the character’s consciousness by direct and apparently unmediated quotation of such mental processes as memories, thoughts, impressions, and sensations. Stream of consciousness, constituting as it did the ground of self-awareness, was consequently extended to describe those narratives and narrative strategies in which the overt presence of the author/narrator was suppressed in favor of presenting the story exclusively through the (un/sub/pre)conscious thought of one or more of the characters in the story. Although examples of stream of consciousness techniques can arguably be found in narratives written during the last several centuries, it is British writers who are generally most often cited as exemplars of the stream of consciousness technique associated with the high modern period of the early twentieth century; they are Virginia Woolf, James Joyce, and Dorothy Richardson.

Bearing in mind the origin of the term, it is easy to see why some Anglo-American literary critics and theorists have subsumed all textual manifestations of the mental activity of characters in a narrative under the overarching term stream of consciousness. While convenient, this tendency belies the rich range and depth of narrative methods for (re)presenting a character’s consciousness, often best described by the terms originally naming them. Consider, for example, the French term monologue intérieur, rendered obviously enough in English as interior monologue. In this instance, a running monologue—similar to those we all experience inside our own minds but, importantly, cannot experience in the minds of others except in fictional narrative—is textually rendered as the unmediated but articulated, logical thoughts of a fictional character. That this monologue is unmediated, presented to the reader without either authorial or narratorial intervention or the common textual signs associated with narrative speech (e.g., quotation marks or attributive verbs), is crucial to establishing in the reader the sense of access to the consciousness of the character. That it is logical and respects grammatical form and syntax, as opposed to appearing a random collection of disconnected thoughts and images, distinguishes it from another textual rendering of the stream of consciousness, that of sensory impression.

Sensory impression occurs as simple lists of a character’s sensations or impressions, sometimes with ellipses separating the elements or lists. These unconscious or preconscious sensory impressions (re)present the inarticulable thoughts, the image-inations of a character not experienced as words. To prevent free associations stemming from such sensory impressions running away with and destroying the flow and integrity of the narrative, a story must somehow be anchored within the stream of consciousness. One method is a recurring motif or theme. The motif appears on the surface of a character’s thoughts, then disappears among the flow of memories, sensations and impressions it initiates only to resurface some time later, perhaps in a different form, to pull the story back up into the consciousness of both the character and the reader. Consider, in particular, the example of Virginia’s Woolf’s short story “The Mark on the Wall.” The story begins as a meditation—which could easily be read as a spoken monologue—on a series of recollected events but quickly turns, through the motif of a mark seen by the narrator over a mantle piece on the wall, to a near random stream of loosely connected memories and impressions. As the story progresses, the mark and speculations as to its nature and origin appear and disappear as a thread running in and out of and binding the loose folds of the narrator’s recollections. The narrator’s stream of consciousness ranges widely over time and space whereas the narrator quite clearly remains bound to a particular place and time, anchored—seemingly—by the mark on the wall.

While not generally considered a textual manifestation of stream of consciousness in the conventional sense—in part because associated with third person rather than first person narration—another method of (re)presenting the consciousness of characters is free indirect discourse (in French, style indirect libre) or reported or experienced speech (from the German term, erlebte Rede). Consider the following, from the ending paragraphs of Joyce’s short story “The Dead”: “He wondered at his riot of emotions an hour before. From what had it proceeded? From his aunt’s supper, from his own foolish speech, from the wine and dancing, the merry-making when saying good-night in the hall, the pleasure of the walk along the river in the snow. Poor Aunt Julia! She, too, would soon be a shade with the shade of Patrick Morkan and his horse” (222). The first sentence is clearly the narrator telling what the character, Gabriel, is thinking; but with the second sentence a transition in the form of a series of sensory impressions moves the reader to Gabriel’s own conscious thoughts. In the end, it is not the narrator who thinks, “Poor Aunt Julia!”

Examples
"Such fools we all are, she thought, crossing Victoria Street. For Heaven only knows why one loves it so, how one sees it so, making it up, building it round one, tumbling it, creating it every moment afresh; but the veriest frumps, the most dejected of miseries sitting on doorsteps (drink their downfall) do the same; can't be dealt with, she felt positive, by Acts of Parliament for that very reason: they love life. In people's eyes, in the swing, tramp, trudge; in the bellow and the uproar; the carriages, motor cars, omnibuses, vans, sandwich men shuffling and swinging; brass bands; barrel organs; in the triumph and the jingle and the strange high singing of some aeroplane overhead was what she loved; life; London; this moment of June."

-Virginia Woolf, Mrs. Dalloway

Critical Debates
Gerald Prince contests the term's frequent association with "interior monologue in his Dictionary of Narratology, writing:

"Though interior monologue and stream of consciousness have often been considered interchangeable, they have also frequently been contrasted: the former would present a character's thoughts rather than impressions or perceptions, while the latter would present both impressions and thoughts; or else, the former would respect morphology and syntax, whereas the latter would not...and would thus capture throught in its nascent stage, prior to any logical connection" (94).
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I bow to the lord who abides within.
The Resurrection Body, as it were.
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Phoenix



Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 506

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
makara wrote:
Damn words.
All right then.
An unconscious being sat down.
The being who stood up says that "no - thing happened"
and as we know, 'no thing' can be everything.
So how to describe what happened to the being who
sat down? That being certainly did not have
the knowledge possessed by the one who stood up.





The one who sat down evaporated and there are no words for that which stood up.


Stream of consciousness
Stream of consciousness is a method of narrative representation of "random" thoughts which follow in a freely-flowing style.

Contents [hide]
1 Definition
2 Examples
3 Critical Debates
4 Related Terms
5 References


Definition
Primarily associated with the modernist movement, stream of consciousness is a form of interior monologue which claims as its goal the representation of a lead consciousness in a narrative (typically fiction). This representation of consciousness can include perceptions or impressions, thoughts incited by outside sensory stimuli, and fragments of random, disconnected thoughts. Stream of consciousness writing often lacks "correct" punctuation or syntax, favoring a looser, more incomplete style.

The coining of the term has generally been credited to the American psychologist William James, older brother of novelist Henry James. It was used originally by psychologists in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries to describe the personal awareness of one’s mental processes. In The Principles of Psychology, Chapter IX, The Stream of Thought, James provides a phenomenological description of this sense-ation of consciousness: “Consciousness, then, does not appear to itself chopped up in bits. Such words as ‘chain’ or ‘train’ do not describe it fitly as it presents itself in the first instance. It is nothing jointed; it flows. A ‘river’ or a ‘stream’ are the metaphors by which it is most naturally described. In talking of it hereafter let us call it the stream of thought, of consciousness, or of subjective life” (239) [emphasis in the original]. It is helpful at the outset to distinguish stream of consciousness from free association. Stream of consciousness, from a psychological perspective, describes metaphorically the phenomenon—the continuous and contiguous flow of sensations, impressions, images, memories and thoughts—experienced by each person, at all levels of consciousness, and which is generally associated with each person’s subjectivity, or sense of self. Free association, on the other hand, is a process in which apparently random data collected by a subject allow connections to be made from the unconscious, subconscious and preconscious mind(s) to the conscious mind of that subject. Translated and mapped to the space of narrative literatures, free association can be one textual element used to signify the stream of consciousness.

As a literary term, stream of consciousness appears in the early twentieth century at the intersection of three apparently disparate projects: the developing science of psychology (e.g., investigations of the forms and manifestations of consciousness, as elaborated by Freud, Jung, James, and others), the continuing speculations of western philosophy as to the nature of being (e.g., investigations of consciousness in time by Henri Bergson), and reactionary forces in the arts which were turning away from realism in the late nineteenth century in favor of exploration of a personal, self-conscious subjectivity. The psychological term was appropriated to describe a particular style of novel, or technique of characterization that was prevalent in some fictional works. This technique relied upon the mimetic (re)presentation of the mind of a character and dramatized the full range of the character’s consciousness by direct and apparently unmediated quotation of such mental processes as memories, thoughts, impressions, and sensations. Stream of consciousness, constituting as it did the ground of self-awareness, was consequently extended to describe those narratives and narrative strategies in which the overt presence of the author/narrator was suppressed in favor of presenting the story exclusively through the (un/sub/pre)conscious thought of one or more of the characters in the story. Although examples of stream of consciousness techniques can arguably be found in narratives written during the last several centuries, it is British writers who are generally most often cited as exemplars of the stream of consciousness technique associated with the high modern period of the early twentieth century; they are Virginia Woolf, James Joyce, and Dorothy Richardson.

Bearing in mind the origin of the term, it is easy to see why some Anglo-American literary critics and theorists have subsumed all textual manifestations of the mental activity of characters in a narrative under the overarching term stream of consciousness. While convenient, this tendency belies the rich range and depth of narrative methods for (re)presenting a character’s consciousness, often best described by the terms originally naming them. Consider, for example, the French term monologue intérieur, rendered obviously enough in English as interior monologue. In this instance, a running monologue—similar to those we all experience inside our own minds but, importantly, cannot experience in the minds of others except in fictional narrative—is textually rendered as the unmediated but articulated, logical thoughts of a fictional character. That this monologue is unmediated, presented to the reader without either authorial or narratorial intervention or the common textual signs associated with narrative speech (e.g., quotation marks or attributive verbs), is crucial to establishing in the reader the sense of access to the consciousness of the character. That it is logical and respects grammatical form and syntax, as opposed to appearing a random collection of disconnected thoughts and images, distinguishes it from another textual rendering of the stream of consciousness, that of sensory impression.

Sensory impression occurs as simple lists of a character’s sensations or impressions, sometimes with ellipses separating the elements or lists. These unconscious or preconscious sensory impressions (re)present the inarticulable thoughts, the image-inations of a character not experienced as words. To prevent free associations stemming from such sensory impressions running away with and destroying the flow and integrity of the narrative, a story must somehow be anchored within the stream of consciousness. One method is a recurring motif or theme. The motif appears on the surface of a character’s thoughts, then disappears among the flow of memories, sensations and impressions it initiates only to resurface some time later, perhaps in a different form, to pull the story back up into the consciousness of both the character and the reader. Consider, in particular, the example of Virginia’s Woolf’s short story “The Mark on the Wall.” The story begins as a meditation—which could easily be read as a spoken monologue—on a series of recollected events but quickly turns, through the motif of a mark seen by the narrator over a mantle piece on the wall, to a near random stream of loosely connected memories and impressions. As the story progresses, the mark and speculations as to its nature and origin appear and disappear as a thread running in and out of and binding the loose folds of the narrator’s recollections. The narrator’s stream of consciousness ranges widely over time and space whereas the narrator quite clearly remains bound to a particular place and time, anchored—seemingly—by the mark on the wall.

While not generally considered a textual manifestation of stream of consciousness in the conventional sense—in part because associated with third person rather than first person narration—another method of (re)presenting the consciousness of characters is free indirect discourse (in French, style indirect libre) or reported or experienced speech (from the German term, erlebte Rede). Consider the following, from the ending paragraphs of Joyce’s short story “The Dead”: “He wondered at his riot of emotions an hour before. From what had it proceeded? From his aunt’s supper, from his own foolish speech, from the wine and dancing, the merry-making when saying good-night in the hall, the pleasure of the walk along the river in the snow. Poor Aunt Julia! She, too, would soon be a shade with the shade of Patrick Morkan and his horse” (222). The first sentence is clearly the narrator telling what the character, Gabriel, is thinking; but with the second sentence a transition in the form of a series of sensory impressions moves the reader to Gabriel’s own conscious thoughts. In the end, it is not the narrator who thinks, “Poor Aunt Julia!”

Examples
"Such fools we all are, she thought, crossing Victoria Street. For Heaven only knows why one loves it so, how one sees it so, making it up, building it round one, tumbling it, creating it every moment afresh; but the veriest frumps, the most dejected of miseries sitting on doorsteps (drink their downfall) do the same; can't be dealt with, she felt positive, by Acts of Parliament for that very reason: they love life. In people's eyes, in the swing, tramp, trudge; in the bellow and the uproar; the carriages, motor cars, omnibuses, vans, sandwich men shuffling and swinging; brass bands; barrel organs; in the triumph and the jingle and the strange high singing of some aeroplane overhead was what she loved; life; London; this moment of June."

-Virginia Woolf, Mrs. Dalloway

Critical Debates
Gerald Prince contests the term's frequent association with "interior monologue in his Dictionary of Narratology, writing:

"Though interior monologue and stream of consciousness have often been considered interchangeable, they have also frequently been contrasted: the former would present a character's thoughts rather than impressions or perceptions, while the latter would present both impressions and thoughts; or else, the former would respect morphology and syntax, whereas the latter would not...and would thus capture throught in its nascent stage, prior to any logical connection" (94).
_________________
Om Namah Shivaya. . .
I bow to the lord who abides within.
The Resurrection Body, as it were.
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Phoenix



Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 506

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
makara wrote:
Damn words.
All right then.
An unconscious being sat down.
The being who stood up says that "no - thing happened"
and as we know, 'no thing' can be everything.
So how to describe what happened to the being who
sat down? That being certainly did not have
the knowledge possessed by the one who stood up.





The one who sat down evaporated and there are no words for that which stood up.


Meditation is the language of the heart. The Prayer of Silence. The outward prayer may be forced, embellished or even fake. The inner prayer cannot. No human can hear this and make a judgment, or be fooled. It is between you and that which IS--The Creator. This idea is so beautifully expressed by a Sufi poet and mystic, Jalal Ud Din Rumi who lived from 1207 to 1273. He was the spearhead of the Sufi movement as we know it today. In his mystical writings was the following beautiful passage, which while not necessarily referring to meditation per se, captures an essence. This prose is as follows:

"A voice came from God to Moses...
I am not purified by their praises,
'Tis they who become pure and shining thereby.
I regard not the outside and the words,
I regard the inside and the state of the heart.
I look at the heart if it be humble,
Though the words may be the reverse of humble.
Because the heart is substance and the words accidents.
Accidents are only a means, substance is the final cause.
A burning heart is what I want; consort with burning.
Kindle in thy heart the flame of love."


In more practical terms, meditation is a method of withdrawing from the outer to the inner. It is a way of stilling the mind. It is a state of active-passivity if you will. That is, while stilling the mind, one is actively "waiting," anticipating. An observed with expectancy, hushed expectancy. It is in the very real sense of the word, a communion. A meeting in the mind of the mundane and the Divine. In this place does enlightenment dawn. In this hushed stillness can we hear the voice of the One that pervades all. It is when we block out the outer distractions and noises that we hear what we yearn to hear. Our beloved. Our maker.

"How" to do it is easy enough. There are actually several "types" of meditative practices. How they differ is only in technique. One such method is that of Transcendental Meditation. Here, one is given a mantra in an initiatory ceremony. The mantra is a word or a phrase, usually in Sanskrit. The TM-er will sit quietly and allow his or her personal mantra, for such it is, to "come". It wells up from the inner being and "sounds" in the body. The "repetition" of the Mantra helps block out the distracting influences and has an influence of its own. That is, the mantra is especially selected for the practitioner by someone well-versed in this technique. Thus the mantra will have a particularly beneficial "resonant" effect on the practitioner. Almost like tuning a circuit to its natural frequency.

This is one use of a mantra. Another way is not so much as an "aid" but as a preamble. The recitation of particular mantra prior to meditation (as opposed to during meditation ala TM) will set the mood as it were. Every Indian child is taught a "universal" mantra known as the "Gayatri" mantra. This mantra is supposedly the "highest" mantra there is. Interestingly, Gayatri is Devi Gayatri or a feminine aspect of Deity. Mother Gayatri. Further, She is a solar deity and would correspond to Tiphareth on the Tree of Life. At this sphere we also find the Christ consciousness. So, on a Hebrew glyph, we find the Eastern concept of a feminine God equated to the Christian concept of the aspect of God which corresponds to the Egyptian slain God Osiris and there we go! Let me add that I have personally found the practice of meditation preceded by the Gayatri mantra an efficacious method. I can recommend it from my experience with it. But by all means try your particular likes first. They will all result, one day, in what Patanjali said was the breakthrough of the duality of devotion into the unity of self and God.
\
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I bow to the lord who abides within.
The Resurrection Body, as it were.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
evaporated

Since what's his name saw Buddha just after he left
the tree and what's her name brought milk and honey
can i presume T that you mean 'identity evaporated?'
i'e he stopped identifiying as Siddartha the man.



What happens to a shadow when caught in the sun?
Did the shadow transform into another thing?
What happens to a mirage when its apparent reality is exposed to the light of awareness?
Was the mirage ever an actuality?
Or did it emerge and evaporate in the mind of a sentient being?


Last edited by toombaru on Mon May 24, 2010 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
makara wrote:
Quote:
evaporated

Since what's his name saw Buddha just after he left
the tree and what's her name brought milk and honey
can i presume T that you mean 'identity evaporated?'
i'e he stopped identifiying as Siddartha the man.



What happens to a shadow when caught in the sun?
Did the shadow transform into another thing.
What happens to a mirage when its apparent reality is exposed to the light of awareness?
Was the mirage ever an actuality?
Or did it emerge and evaporate in the mind of a sentient being?


'the mind of a sentient being'... a shadow no less... smile

Liove
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:
makara wrote:
Quote:
evaporated

Since what's his name saw Buddha just after he left
the tree and what's her name brought milk and honey
can i presume T that you mean 'identity evaporated?'
i'e he stopped identifiying as Siddartha the man.



What happens to a shadow when caught in the sun?
Did the shadow transform into another thing.
What happens to a mirage when its apparent reality is exposed to the light of awareness?
Was the mirage ever an actuality?
Or did it emerge and evaporate in the mind of a sentient being?


'the mind of a sentient being'... a shadow no less... smile

Liove






Michael,

Sometimes......from so far away.... I can feel your breath breathing me.


Last edited by toombaru on Mon May 24, 2010 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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makara



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Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pathetic for sure but Toomby
I awoke from sleep at some ungodly hour
and what was there niggling was your post:

Quote:
When one states that they have no idea what truth is..... they are saying that they do.

Earlier in this thread it was let passed ... but on 2nd thoughts,
what does it mean?

e.g. It would be accurate here if this one said:
"I don't know what truth is."

It would be wonderful if that turned around and
'I' suddenly did know .. but I don't.
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Pathetic for sure but Toomby
I awoke from sleep at some ungodly hour
and what was there niggling was your post:

Quote:
When one states that they have no idea what truth is..... they are saying that they do.

Earlier in this thread it was let passed ... but on 2nd thoughts,
what does it mean?

e.g. It would be accurate here if this one said:
"I don't know what truth is."

It would be wonderful if that turned around and
'I' suddenly did know .. but I don't.







The statement that one doesn't know the truth is saying that one knows the truth ......and that the truth is that they don't know the truth.

There is a built in assumption within the syntax of language that cannot be escaped.

Conceptual thought creates and sustains the illusion of separation and cannot be used to unravel its own pseudo-reality.

Ever come across U.G. Krishnamurti. Jan Cox, or Wei Wu Wei?
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makara



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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ..ok .. sounds like the sort of stuff people
do in philosophy (which is fine) and I never did
so learn to think this way.
Who's Jan Cox?

Long long time ago ... K'murti's bks - haven't
read him for ages.(There's a bandstand at an inner city
harbour beach in Sydney which was built for his
arrival in 1922 - still there, still used.)
Wei Wu Wei - know of this Irishman but haven't read him
only pithy sayings which crop up being so quotable.
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