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Worth a read!

 
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 6:31 am    Post subject: Worth a read! Reply with quote

The critique to be found with the link below
gave me something worthwhile.
It also expressed more coherently than I have
some of the hesitations felt.

Anyway ... check it for yourself at:-
http://luthar.com/sri-ramanas-teaching-and-western-neo-advaita-by-alan-jacobs/
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Worth a read! Reply with quote

Spiritual Humanism versus Neo-Advaita - Möller de la Rouvière, Tony Parsons and Alan Stoltz.
(no goadvaita.org.uk/discourses/trad_neo/humanism_moller.htm)
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aquarius



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 2408
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


"Only one book is worth reading: the heart."





One Mind - - many stories.

'You' make your own story.

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I love talking about nothing ...
it is the only thing i know anything about.
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aquarius wrote:

"Only one book is worth reading: the heart."





"Wisdom tells me I'm Nothing.
Love tells me I'm Everything.
Between the two my life flows."

Nisargadatta Maharaj
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the heart

That's very beautiful Aquarius
however it seems that us fellas
do not have as clear an access to
that organ as you ladies do.
_______________

Hence the importance of some critique.
There are some very strong claims made
here ... and for those like me who are not
yet 'baptised' so to speak, it can be over-
whelming. Critique keeps things more honest
and true. Sometimes it does indeed seem
that here the blind are leading the blind.
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:


Hence the importance of some critique.
There are some very strong claims made
here ... and for those like me who are not
yet 'baptised' so to speak, it can be over-
whelming. Critique keeps things more honest
and true. Sometimes it does indeed seem
that here the blind are leading the blind.



Nonduality has nothing to do with right or wrong, with critique...

but right and wrong, and critique may arise within 'It'...


.
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
critique may arise within 'It'.

As indeed it appears to have done.
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Libra



Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Posts: 518

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="makara"
Sometimes it does indeed seem
that here the blind are leading the blind.
[/quote]

everywhere
the blind are leading the blind
where does one find someone with true vision?

Toombaru
would you like to answer that one
for our friend?
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angela



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 1078
Location: uk

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Worth a read! Reply with quote

makara wrote:
The critique to be found with the link below
gave me something worthwhile.
It also expressed more coherently than I have
some of the hesitations felt.

Anyway ... check it for yourself at:-
http://luthar.com/sri-ramanas-teaching-and-western-neo-advaita-by-alan-jacobs/


Hello, been looking in now and again and enjoying the thoughts and perspectives shared here, this article prompted me to respond, maybe because it relates to Ramana Maharshi and his ideas on self inquiry which I particularly like. But also it relates to something I've puzzled over regarding self realization or enlightenment and what it means. From what i can understand, the article is arguing that in the East enlightenment equates to experiencing a kind of full on, ever present mystical experience of bliss, and union, of actually perceiving the Self in all things all of the time, of knowing that all is One not just as an understanding but as an on going ever present experience? (I've had this kind of experience a few times but only briefly, I think it's also called 'kensho'). Whereas in the West with so called - neoadvaita, the article is saying enlightenment equates to realising and understanding or exposing the 'false sense of me' realising that I am not what I previously thought and understanding that all is interconnected, that there is no I seperate from the All, but not actually experiencing this expanded sense of Self in a particularly profound way, in fact things carry on pretty much as before after the so called enlightenment has happened, other than maybe the seeking dropping off, but in fact this is maybe just like a first step? So it's like the article is saying that neo advaita and eastern advaita have different standards as to what enlightenment is? Maybe this doesn't really matter, if someone feels inclined to really earnestly pursue self enquiry and somehow open their channels and purify their mental habits etc etc and experience more blissful states thats great, if they don't feel so inclined thats fine too. I suppose i'm curious about whether there are different definitions or grades or depths of enlightenment is bliss and profound mystical union a perpetual reality for some such as Ramana Maharshi?


I sometimes wish I was a little bit more enthusiastic about practicing self enquiry..
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:40 am    Post subject: Re: Worth a read! Reply with quote

angela wrote:
makara wrote:
The critique to be found with the link below
gave me something worthwhile.
It also expressed more coherently than I have
some of the hesitations felt.

Anyway ... check it for yourself at:-
http://luthar.com/sri-ramanas-teaching-and-western-neo-advaita-by-alan-jacobs/


Hello, been looking in now and again and enjoying the thoughts and perspectives shared here, this article prompted me to respond, maybe because it relates to Ramana Maharshi and his ideas on self inquiry which I particularly like. But also it relates to something I've puzzled over regarding self realization or enlightenment and what it means. From what i can understand, the article is arguing that in the East enlightenment equates to experiencing a kind of full on, ever present mystical experience of bliss, and union, of actually perceiving the Self in all things all of the time, of knowing that all is One not just as an understanding but as an on going ever present experience? (I've had this kind of experience a few times but only briefly, I think it's also called 'kensho'). Whereas in the West with so called - neoadvaita, the article is saying enlightenment equates to realising and understanding or exposing the 'false sense of me' realising that I am not what I previously thought and understanding that all is interconnected, that there is no I seperate from the All, but not actually experiencing this expanded sense of Self in a particularly profound way, in fact things carry on pretty much as before after the so called enlightenment has happened, other than maybe the seeking dropping off, but in fact this is maybe just like a first step? So it's like the article is saying that neo advaita and eastern advaita have different standards as to what enlightenment is? Maybe this doesn't really matter, if someone feels inclined to really earnestly pursue self enquiry and somehow open their channels and purify their mental habits etc etc and experience more blissful states thats great, if they don't feel so inclined thats fine too. I suppose i'm curious about whether there are different definitions or grades or depths of enlightenment is bliss and profound mystical union a perpetual reality for some such as Ramana Maharshi?


I sometimes wish I was a little bit more enthusiastic about practicing self enquiry..





Self inquiry is a misunderstanding.

The sense of separation has (is) the belief that it can access its own sphere of influence........and that is an erroneous assumption.

It cannot see nothing on the inside......simply because there is nothing there.

One can study the origin and modality of the self and in so doing loosen its underpinnings.

The idea that enlightenment is constant bliss is another misinterpretation.

When the ego loses its opacity the sense of being the doer dissipates and a most familiar lightness of being occurs.

Life is depersonalized and sentient-awareness flows easily through its natural course.

The sense of self remains but is seen for what it is and no longer sits in the center of the drama.

There are no methods that it can use to reach the understanding of its own essential emptiness.

There is nothing it can do to transcend the world that exists only in its own conceptual dream of separation.

Along with the apperception of the vacuity of self comes the understanding that nothing can be known about the self and its imaginary world.

Find out how real the self is and its dream will implode.
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

angela wrote:
I suppose i'm curious about whether there are different definitions or grades or depths of enlightenment is bliss and profound mystical union a perpetual reality for some such as Ramana Maharshi?




When it is seen BY NO ONE

that there is NO ONE

and NOTHING to find

then all materialism,

included 'spiritual materialism'

also called 'enlightenment'

fall away

and what remains is THIS,

the wonder of BEING.


Eh?
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Homer



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Traditional Vs Neo-Advaita?

Who cares?
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer wrote:
Traditional Vs Neo-Advaita?

Who cares?



Nobody cares, some bodies care...


Cool
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Homer ... good to see yr

Hello Angela, glad you came back/in ...
may you remain as another aspect of the
one contributer playing Q & A with Itself.
- what you say is a good contribution.
I've also has those special experiences ...
but what was notable was that they didn't last.

When say one reads Papaji then it's reasonable
to expect Bliss in capital letters.
But as T points out ... that's not what happens
to us westerners anyway. maybe it's something
in the water in India.

Quote:
a most familiar lightness of being occurs

If I cna'thave the Bliss Toombaru then some of that
would be good Cool
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