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Oppressive outlook
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Zed



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Oppressive outlook Reply with quote

There is the separation paradigm.

Or... the non-separation paradigm.

Throughout history this insight into non-separation has been available.

It's the heart of Buddhism, Taoism, Christian mysticism, Advaita Vedanta and others.

These traditions have inevitably concealed or embellished it with all sorts of extraneous material.

Vedanta's version in particular is wrapped up in the extensive literature and metaphysics of the Vedas.

With Vedanta it's almost compulsory to reach an understanding of the meaning of life and solve all sorts of age old philosophical problems before 'true' nondual realization is apparently attainable.

Some contemporary writers are unfortunately deeply influenced by this oppressive outlook.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Oppressive outlook Reply with quote

Zed wrote:
There is the separation paradigm.

Or... the non-separation paradigm.

Throughout history this insight into non-separation has been available.

It's the heart of Buddhism, Taoism, Christian mysticism, Advaita Vedanta and others.

These traditions have inevitably concealed or embellished it with all sorts of extraneous material.

Vedanta's version in particular is wrapped up in the extensive literature and metaphysics of the Vedas.

With Vedanta it's almost compulsory to reach an understanding of the meaning of life and solve all sorts of age old philosophical problems before 'true' nondual realization is apparently attainable.

Some contemporary writers are unfortunately deeply influenced by this oppressive outlook.





The ultimate understanding is that there is no understanding.
It is the nature of the conceptual mind to imagine that which is imagined to be a great secret can be uncovered through its own efforts or that it is somehow hidden in ancient texts.
All of that appears deeply oppressive to the sense of separation.....as well it should.
There is no combination of thoughts that will extract that which is composed solely of thoughts from its imaginary confinement.
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Zed



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Oppressive outlook Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
Zed wrote:
There is the separation paradigm.

Or... the non-separation paradigm.

Throughout history this insight into non-separation has been available.

It's the heart of Buddhism, Taoism, Christian mysticism, Advaita Vedanta and others.

These traditions have inevitably concealed or embellished it with all sorts of extraneous material.

Vedanta's version in particular is wrapped up in the extensive literature and metaphysics of the Vedas.

With Vedanta it's almost compulsory to reach an understanding of the meaning of life and solve all sorts of age old philosophical problems before 'true' nondual realization is apparently attainable.

Some contemporary writers are unfortunately deeply influenced by this oppressive outlook.



The ultimate understanding is that there is no understanding.
It is the nature of the conceptual mind to imagine that which is imagined to be a great secret can be uncovered through its own efforts or that it is somehow hidden in ancient texts.
All of that appears deeply oppressive to the sense of separation.....as well it should.
There is no combination of thoughts that will extract that which is composed solely of thoughts from its imaginary confinement.


You didn't really read the post did you?!

'No separation' is plain and simple. The rest is extraneous metaphysical mumbo jumbo that is utterly irrelevant.
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Oppressive outlook Reply with quote

Zed wrote:


'No separation' is plain and simple. The rest is extraneous metaphysical mumbo jumbo that is utterly irrelevant.



'No separation' is not important nor is it unimportant...

Importance and irrelevance only occur in 'the dream of separation'.

'Simplicity' and 'complexity' only occur in 'the dream of separation'.

Without the dream of separation there simply is no thing...

No one to judge and no thing to be judged.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Oppressive outlook Reply with quote

Zed wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Zed wrote:
There is the separation paradigm.

Or... the non-separation paradigm.

Throughout history this insight into non-separation has been available.

It's the heart of Buddhism, Taoism, Christian mysticism, Advaita Vedanta and others.

These traditions have inevitably concealed or embellished it with all sorts of extraneous material.

Vedanta's version in particular is wrapped up in the extensive literature and metaphysics of the Vedas.

With Vedanta it's almost compulsory to reach an understanding of the meaning of life and solve all sorts of age old philosophical problems before 'true' nondual realization is apparently attainable.

Some contemporary writers are unfortunately deeply influenced by this oppressive outlook.



The ultimate understanding is that there is no understanding.
It is the nature of the conceptual mind to imagine that which is imagined to be a great secret can be uncovered through its own efforts or that it is somehow hidden in ancient texts.
All of that appears deeply oppressive to the sense of separation.....as well it should.
There is no combination of thoughts that will extract that which is composed solely of thoughts from its imaginary confinement.


You didn't really read the post did you?!

'No separation' is plain and simple. The rest is extraneous metaphysical mumbo jumbo that is utterly irrelevant.




"No separation" is meaningless without "separation".
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Oppressive outlook Reply with quote

Zed wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Zed wrote:
There is the separation paradigm.

Or... the non-separation paradigm.

Throughout history this insight into non-separation has been available.

It's the heart of Buddhism, Taoism, Christian mysticism, Advaita Vedanta and others.

These traditions have inevitably concealed or embellished it with all sorts of extraneous material.

Vedanta's version in particular is wrapped up in the extensive literature and metaphysics of the Vedas.

With Vedanta it's almost compulsory to reach an understanding of the meaning of life and solve all sorts of age old philosophical problems before 'true' nondual realization is apparently attainable.

Some contemporary writers are unfortunately deeply influenced by this oppressive outlook.



The ultimate understanding is that there is no understanding.
It is the nature of the conceptual mind to imagine that which is imagined to be a great secret can be uncovered through its own efforts or that it is somehow hidden in ancient texts.
All of that appears deeply oppressive to the sense of separation.....as well it should.
There is no combination of thoughts that will extract that which is composed solely of thoughts from its imaginary confinement.


You didn't really read the post did you?!

'No separation' is plain and simple. The rest is extraneous metaphysical mumbo jumbo that is utterly irrelevant.




"No separation" is meaningless without "separation".
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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toom, I thought all concepts we're meaningless?

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way I get there is that there is both.

I love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But I also love Non-Dualism.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
Toom, I thought all concepts we're meaningless?

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way I get there is that there is both.

I love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But I also love Non-Dualism.



The "I" part is your problem.
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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
Toom, I thought all concepts we're meaningless?

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way I get there is that there is both.

I love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But I also love Non-Dualism.



The "I" part is your problem.


Fair enough:

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way you get there is that there is both.

You love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But you also love Non-Dualism.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
Toom, I thought all concepts we're meaningless?

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way I get there is that there is both.

I love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But I also love Non-Dualism.



The "I" part is your problem.


Fair enough:

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way you get there is that there is both.

You love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But you also love Non-Dualism.





I know that non-dualism is my totality.
I know that there is no such thing as non-dualism.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
Toom, I thought all concepts we're meaningless?

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way I get there is that there is both.

I love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But I also love Non-Dualism.



The "I" part is your problem.


Fair enough:

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about.




What would your life be like if you had nothing to think about?
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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
Toom, I thought all concepts we're meaningless?

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way I get there is that there is both.

I love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But I also love Non-Dualism.



The "I" part is your problem.


Fair enough:

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about.




What would your life be like if you had nothing to think about?


Probably very similar minus the narration.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
Toom, I thought all concepts we're meaningless?

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way I get there is that there is both.

I love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But I also love Non-Dualism.



The "I" part is your problem.


Fair enough:

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about.







What would your life be like if you had nothing to think about?


Probably very similar minus the narration.





It wouldn't exist at all.

You think it into existence.
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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
Toom, I thought all concepts we're meaningless?

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about. The way I get there is that there is both.

I love the Nihilism because it's a good sharpener. But I also love Non-Dualism.



The "I" part is your problem.


Fair enough:

Ya, meaninglessness leaves us with nothing to think about.







What would your life be like if you had nothing to think about?


Probably very similar minus the narration.





It wouldn't exist at all.

You think it into existence.


Well, it's a thought.
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Probably very similar minus the narration.


works here!

Quote:
You think it into existence.

I know this is a basic tenet of ND
yet who the 'you' is
remains very unclear here.

Point is none on this forum are free from
thinking process.
None on this forum can actually
describe what it would be not to experience
thinking.

It's like the guy who threw stuff out of the train window
every morning.
One day s/one asked him why he did that.
"Cos it keeps the elephants away." was his reply.
"But there are no elephants here" the other said.
"Yeah, see it works doesn't it".
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