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Form and Symbols

 
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Form and Symbols Reply with quote

Image:

A film runs, images on the screen appear to move. Change is apparent.

But look. Each image is a separate frame in which the 'symbol' is fixed, ever unchanging. This is the reality. The appearance of change is an illusion.

Every symbol is ever unchanging. It is as it is. It cannot change, for then it would be a different symbol, with different meaning.

How vast: a symbol for every possibility... inifinite, unchanging, perfect. All meaning as one: invisible, unsensed... known only to the knowing. One with the knowing. One with being.

The film runs:

Colours, sounds, odours, flavours and feelings rise and fall in ever changing patterns, giving the symbols their apparent form. The symbols giving the appearances their meaning.

Just pointing... don't get too hung up on the 'image'.

That to which it points is... 'self evident'.

Not to 'me' (the symbol)

But to...

Love
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nemo



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 213
Location: NorCal

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you - execllent
Yes, it has often struck me that nothing moves - the mind takes snapshots and memory weaves them together and voila - a moving picture

and yet, I get that it all just spontaneously emerges...

how weird and wonderful!

joe
Very Happy
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is observed. Not in theory but actually?

Here are some 'observations':

Meaning (Symbol/Idea) is constant... ever unchanged.

All meaning is one. 'Old' has meaning only by reference to 'Young' and vice versa. 'Woman' has meaning only by reference to 'Man' and vice versa. Indeed, without both there is neither.

To fully understand the meaning of any 'thing' is to know all that is knowable. Human beings exist not in isolation, but in a world on which they depend for food, water, air, shelter, clothing, entertainment... which itself is a part of the universe, in which all things are known by reference to each other.

Don't ask 'me' (any 'me') to explain what 'meaning' is. It cannot be explained. Meaning is that which is known - 'self evident'... as colours are 'self evident'.

(Any thought that asks 'what is meaning' is asking 'me' to explain it! Confused Shocked Very Happy )

What is known is that 'Old Woman' is ever 'Old Woman'. It can never mean 'Young Woman'.

'Old', 'Young' and 'Woman' can only ever mean what they mean, and can never 'not mean' what they mean.

'Old' can never mean 'Young'.

Reading this, it may be thought that of course it can. The meaning of words change all the time. Currently, young people in Australia say something is 'wicked' when they mean it is 'good'!

Yet the meaning 'good' is still what it always is... regardless of the 'marks' used to signify it.

The meaning is not in the marks. The meaning cannot be sensed. It can only be known.

As it cannot be sensed, the meaning cannot be derived from the senses. Nothing sensed can convey meaning. Learning from experience is impossible. Indeed, 'learning' is really only remembering what is never really forgotten Cool Shocked Very Happy

Someone may say, of course 'meaning' can be 'sensed'. I can clearly see (and touch and smell and hear and taste) a 'young woman' as opposed to an 'old woman'.

Indeed, it may seem that it is from sensing 'young' 'old' and 'woman' that I 'learn' what is the meaning of 'young', 'old' and 'woman'.

So do an experiment.

Look at the picture below.

The colours forming the picture are unchanged as they are seen, yet in one moment they may appear as the image of a 'young woman', and the next instant they may appear as an 'old woman'.

In reality, nothing has changed: neither the meanings nor the lines.

Form appears to change only as different meaning is associated with the colours seen.



no gooptom.demon.co.uk/illusions/illusionset.htm

(The young woman seems to have her face turned away looking to her right. The old woman appears to have a very large nose formed by the chin and jaw of the young woman, with her mouth formed by the 'choker' on the young woman's neck.)

What is true of this image is true of all things sensed.

The form appears in the conjunction of colours (and feelings and other sensations) and meaning.

Forms appear to change in two ways:

In one case, the change is said to be 'objective'. Eg as a person appears to age over time. In this case, both the sensations and the meaning that are 'in awareness' change to give the impression of a woman aging over time.

In the second case it is said to be 'subjective', depending upon the viewpoint of the 'observer'. In this case, the sensations change but the meaning does not. For example, a car seen 'in the distance' is known (meaning) to be the same car that was first seen close up, though the colours giving it appearance are very different moment to moment (as it moves relative to the 'observer').

The 'observer' has no independent reality. It is simply a character in the play and a viewpoint from which the play is experienced.

Know that the objects of sense are as dream images having no independent reality. Between them and the seeing/sensing of them there is no space and between each moment and in the course of the moment there is no time... indeed apart from the idea, there is neither space nor time.

That which reads these words now is spaceless, timeless, unsensed and unknowable. And yet here it is! Without doubt Very Happy

This discussion is to no purpose.

And yet it is as if the Heart smiles in the telling.

Love
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:
To fully understand the meaning of any 'thing' is to know all that is knowable. Human beings exist not in isolation, but in a world on which they depend for food, water, air, shelter, clothing, entertainment... which itself is a part of the universe, in which all things are known by reference to each other.


The world 'exists' as meaning/idea only... ever unchanged.

It is 'objectified' through sensation. It is the momentary pattern of odours, flavours, colours, sounds and feelings that give apparent substance to all that is known, creating an image of the 'known world' from the perspective of each creature (itself a part of the world of meaning).

Number/Mathematics is the language of apparent change. It reflects the process by which one form is transposed* into another - as revealed through science.

(*No form can change into another form, for then it would not be the form it is)

Though the image on a film is fixed, it appears that the image changes from one form into another as the film is run, but this is an illusion. Each frame is ever unchanged.

Just so, every form/meaning is as it is... eternally. As sensations and meaning arise in awareness 'moment to moment' it appears that 'things' change, but it is an illusion (just as the apparent change on a film is illusion, or the apparent change in a dream).

As forms/meaning are the objects of knowing, so this is known. The subject of this knowing is unknowable, for it is knowing itself.

Science tells only of the relation of one form (image) to another form (image).

Neither it, nor I nor anyone can ever explain the reality of consciousness, nor of the power by which the senses and meaning arise in perfect concord to create the appearance of the world.

Such is as it appears here now.

Love
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