| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jimK
Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Sedona, Az. USA
|
 Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: question... |
 |
|
In doing the "Drop it" experience, approach, the following question came to mind (yes...I know DI or "Drop it"!)
Has anyone here been able to watch their thoughts feelings...and...at the same timme been aware of their "external" reality? So far, I have not had this experience. Jim
_________________
Each moment presents itself fresh...as an invitation and opportunity to Awaken! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
toombaru
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: question... |
|
|
| jimK wrote: | In doing the "Drop it" experience, approach, the following question came to mind (yes...I know DI or "Drop it"!)
Has anyone here been able to watch their thoughts feelings...and...at the same timme been aware of their "external" reality? So far, I have not had this experience. Jim |
That's because your 'external reality' and 'your' thoughts about it.........are the same thing.
toombaru |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
toombaru
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: question... |
|
|
| toombaru wrote: | | jimK wrote: | In doing the "Drop it" experience, approach, the following question came to mind (yes...I know DI or "Drop it"!)
Has anyone here been able to watch their thoughts feelings...and...at the same timme been aware of their "external" reality? So far, I have not had this experience. Jim |
That's because your 'external reality' and 'your' thoughts about it.........are the same thing.
toombaru |
'You' are no more able to 'drop it' then you are able to lift yourself off the ground by pulling very hard on your bootstraps.
toombaru |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimK
Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Sedona, Az. USA
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: question... |
|
|
That's because your 'external reality' and 'your' thoughts about it.........are the same thing.
toombaru[/quote] | Quote: |
Tombaru: From my experience...they feel or appear to be separate. E.G: Right now I clearly see my hands choosing keys and pressing them down on my lap top...this visual data is fresh and clear. And...while I'm observing this, I am aware of no thoughts. But my external focus is easily interrupted by ensuing thoughts and feelings about my hands, the computer...or whatever. I understand that both visual data and thoughts/feelings are in thee same category of objects of awareness...and may be aspects of the same thing. I am reporting that I automatically differentiate them and cannot experience them at the same time. (At least in my regular way of perceiving). Am I making sense? Thank you...Jim Also to add...I have read various non-dual teachings...but am putting all of these findings on hold...starting from scratch...and just finding out for myself....as best as I can. |
_________________
Each moment presents itself fresh...as an invitation and opportunity to Awaken! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimK
Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Sedona, Az. USA
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:38 pm Post subject: As for "Drop it"... |
|
|
As for "drop it", it would be more accurate to say that I am using these words as an audible, inner prompt or cue that causes the thought/feeling to dissapate and be replaced by the sense experience of seeing the chair or whatever. Like seeing a slide show where the contents of one screen fades to reveal neww contents. Jim
_________________
Each moment presents itself fresh...as an invitation and opportunity to Awaken! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
toombaru
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: question... |
|
|
| jimK wrote: | That's because your 'external reality' and 'your' thoughts about it.........are the same thing.
toombaru |
| Quote: |
Tombaru: From my experience...they feel or appear to be separate. E.G: Right now I clearly see my hands choosing keys and pressing them down on my lap top...this visual data is fresh and clear. And...while I'm observing this, I am aware of no thoughts. But my external focus is easily interrupted by ensuing thoughts and feelings about my hands, the computer...or whatever. I understand that both visual data and thoughts/feelings are in thee same category of objects of awareness...and may be aspects of the same thing. I am reporting that I automatically differentiate them and cannot experience them at the same time. (At least in my regular way of perceiving). Am I making sense? Thank you...Jim Also to add...I have read various non-dual teachings...but am putting all of these findings on hold...starting from scratch...and just finding out for myself....as best as I can. |
[/quote]
Every'thing' downstream from the assumption of a separate self.......is false.
You are looking in the wrong place.
Anything that you can find in a prison....is part of the prison.
toombaru |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
toombaru
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: question... |
|
|
| toombaru wrote: | | jimK wrote: | That's because your 'external reality' and 'your' thoughts about it.........are the same thing.
toombaru |
| Quote: |
Tombaru: From my experience...they feel or appear to be separate. E.G: Right now I clearly see my hands choosing keys and pressing them down on my lap top...this visual data is fresh and clear. And...while I'm observing this, I am aware of no thoughts. But my external focus is easily interrupted by ensuing thoughts and feelings about my hands, the computer...or whatever. I understand that both visual data and thoughts/feelings are in thee same category of objects of awareness...and may be aspects of the same thing. I am reporting that I automatically differentiate them and cannot experience them at the same time. (At least in my regular way of perceiving). Am I making sense? Thank you...Jim Also to add...I have read various non-dual teachings...but am putting all of these findings on hold...starting from scratch...and just finding out for myself....as best as I can. |
|
Every'thing' downstream from the assumption of a separate self.......is false.
You are looking in the wrong place.
Anything that you can find in a prison....is part of the prison.
toombaru[/quote]
"You" are the content of consciousness.......searching within the content of consciousness for consciousness itself.
You are the eyes..........searching for sight.
toombaru |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
michael
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:00 am Post subject: Re: question... |
|
|
| toombaru wrote: | You are the eyes..........searching for sight.
toombaru |
Now I know 'toombaru' is just being his usual poetic self.
But there really is no searching for sight, is there?
Seeing now... 'seeing' is 'self evident': not 'what' it is, but 'that' it is.
This is no theory. The fact of seeing is not an idea. Seeing 'is'.
The same for all the senses.
Knowing too 'is 'self evident'. The fact of knowing is not an idea. Knowing 'is'.
Together, these are called 'awareness': 'self evident'.
All apparent objects appear in the instantaneous 'conjunction' of colours, sounds, feelings, flavours, odours and meaning that momentarily arise: 'self evident'. How this happens... no idea 
'Thought' is an apparent 'object', no different to any other apparent object.
It (thought) appears at the conjunction of 'subtle sounds' heard and 'meaning' known. The sounds forming the 'voice in the head' (no head... just speaking poetically) that are called 'my thoughts', are understood. That is to say the meaning is understood and the subtle sounds are heard.
The sounds are not the meaning... they are just sounds.
Now thought says: "I cannot be aware of the external world and thoughts at the same time". This thought is known in the instant it arises.
No one is fooled by it, no one is deluded by it... it is simply known as it arises.
It may seem that someone thinks this thought, that someone believes it, that someone thinks it is 'their thought'... but these are just more thoughts, known as they arise.
With their passing, no thing has changed.
There is no one more 'enlightened', or more 'confused' or 'lost' than any other.
That which knows clarity, knows each and all from every perspective, including the perspective of a 'non-seeker', called Jim... who still seems uncertain. This seeming uncertainty, this seeming 'exploration of immediate awareness and of thought' is simply knowing what appears in the moment it appears... it is a story signifying nothing beyond the story itself.
Love
_________________
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimK
Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Sedona, Az. USA
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:54 pm Post subject: Thank you |
|
|
Thank you Toombaru, and Michael for your clarifying words. As these words arise...these words are arising mysteriously. Little me is thinking that I am creating them. But, apparently, I am just another object in Consciouness....along with everything else thiis little Jim has ever "experienced" or aspires to be. All of this appears to be happening in my world and universe...as within the walls of a metaphoric prison...that Toombaru referred to. So any improvement or realizations regarding visual perception...feeling better, etc is relative to the other inmates and my "past"...and more to the point...all of this is illusory: including me...everything that appears to present itself within the priison walls is bogus. So...I have aspired for so long to wake up...but being little me...this little figment...this mirage...will continue his very futile imaginary musings...that he somehow can use the right technique or appease God (both bogus as well)
So...I guess I'll get up from this pretend chair, have a cup of pseudo Java...later (which is pretend too) have a roll in the hay with my pretend lady friend (think I'll not tell her that or there will be no more rolls in the hay for this little me!).
So...back at the ranch...the big Ranch...what is Really happening is Consciousness....creating little me, my little companion, fears, dreams...and even this very thought that Consciouness is Happening...that must be false as well. Little Jimmy is still fast asleep....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Even if he wakes up, he could be only dreaming that he woke up.
And since I encountered you two...both of you are my new found dream mates. (from Jimm'ys perspective)
Pinch me some more. Jimmy. (maybe not...For Jimmy can never wake up...nor Realize anything) Wonder if that Java is ready. I know it's pretend...but it sure tastes damn good!
_________________
Each moment presents itself fresh...as an invitation and opportunity to Awaken! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fox
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 821
Location: Switzerland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimK
Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Sedona, Az. USA
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:30 pm Post subject: More rambling from an inmate... |
|
|
Thank you Fox, I'll check it out.
So...I am not the identity Jim, I am the eyes. Yet being this little me, an inmate of this pseudo world...this "prison"....happen upon a computer and receive some words from "Fox"...or from Consciousness (maybe that's a clue...or maybe not) If it's a clue, then maybe all of these words arising through little me come from...or arise as a result of Consciousness.
Remember a part of Plato's Cave allegory where village members are tied to chairs and watch their reality on a stone wall...created from Real light beams (Consciousness) So as long as Jimmy is watching the screen...he is mesmerized...captivated by the images...literally. But I am a projected image as well...everything in the cave (prison) is illusory.
Gosh! what a predicament...help!....(maybe more pretend Java...)
Jim
_________________
Each moment presents itself fresh...as an invitation and opportunity to Awaken! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jimK
Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Sedona, Az. USA
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: Or maybe... |
|
|
Or maybe I am the Light....projecting the image of little me.
(maybe the Truth...or just inmate Jimmy wishing for freedom)
_________________
Each moment presents itself fresh...as an invitation and opportunity to Awaken! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
toombaru
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: Thank you |
|
|
| jimK wrote: | Thank you Toombaru, and Michael for your clarifying words. As these words arise...these words are arising mysteriously. Little me is thinking that I am creating them. But, apparently, I am just another object in Consciouness....along with everything else thiis little Jim has ever "experienced" or aspires to be. All of this appears to be happening in my world and universe...as within the walls of a metaphoric prison...that Toombaru referred to. So any improvement or realizations regarding visual perception...feeling better, etc is relative to the other inmates and my "past"...and more to the point...all of this is illusory: including me...everything that appears to present itself within the priison walls is bogus. So...I have aspired for so long to wake up...but being little me...this little figment...this mirage...will continue his very futile imaginary musings...that he somehow can use the right technique or appease God (both bogus as well)
So...I guess I'll get up from this pretend chair, have a cup of pseudo Java...later (which is pretend too) have a roll in the hay with my pretend lady friend (think I'll not tell her that or there will be no more rolls in the hay for this little me!).
So...back at the ranch...the big Ranch...what is Really happening is Consciousness....creating little me, my little companion, fears, dreams...and even this very thought that Consciouness is Happening...that must be false as well. Little Jimmy is still fast asleep....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Even if he wakes up, he could be only dreaming that he woke up.
And since I encountered you two...both of you are my new found dream mates. (from Jimm'ys perspective)
Pinch me some more. Jimmy. (maybe not...For Jimmy can never wake up...nor Realize anything) Wonder if that Java is ready. I know it's pretend...but it sure tastes damn good! |
"You" are simultaneously the immanent and the transcendent.
"You" are samsara..........and you are nirvana.
"You" are the looker.......the looking......and that which is looked at.
You are the whole enchalada.
All-That-Is taps you on the shoulder and whispers:
"You're IT."
toombaru |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
michael
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iH fxo... dno't smee qtiue so fgogy.
I lkie the 'eey' on yuor web sight 
Love
_________________
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
michael
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The marks that now appear as writing in this post are formed this moment in the seeing... as they are seen - along with all the other images that now appear within the visual field.
Connected with their appearance is a story. The story of a poster called michael, or of consciousness appearing as michael, or some other story... depending on the perspective from which they are read.
In this story are other characters, including 'Jim'.
As toombaru (another character) says: the whole story (which is all stories together... samsara/nirvana) is inseparable from awareness of it.
Yet this awareness is not the story.
Nor is awareness simply seeing ('the eye'), it is all the senses (including feeling, hearing, smelling, tasting) and knowing. Without 'knowing' there would be no story. 
It is possible to use these words as unambiguous 'pointers', as the fact of seeing hearing smelling tasting feeling and knowing is 'self evident'.
As with all words, they cease to be pointers as soon as any meaning is applied to them, as soon as there is any attempt to understand 'what is seeing', 'what is knowing', and so on... for no meaning, no idea, is remotely like the reality.
So this is it: unsensed and unknown...seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and knowing. Eternal and unchanging: experiencing all from every perspective (neither simultaneously, nor consecutively), untouched by any appearance. Timeless, spaceless. Space and time having meaning only within the knowing... given apparent form through the ever changing patterns of colours and feelings and sounds and tastes and smells... as in a dream.
Yet neither sleeping nor awake...
This is it.
Wonder of Wonders.
Love
_________________
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
