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Advaita teachers
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jimK



Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Sedona, Az. USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:06 pm    Post subject: Advaita teachers Reply with quote

There's a whole new crop of Advaita teachers...sprouting up here and there...even some in my backyard Sedona. I've heard that most of these are un-genuine...genetic clones...if you will...off-shoots from their genuine or not so teachers. As an inmate (unenlightened) I cannot possibly tell. Maybe Consciousness can tell. If I really am Consciousness...and if and when this is Realized, there will be no need for either Realized or un-Realized teachers. And...perhaps all off us are Realized...just unapparent- cause we are perceiving from the inmate's point of view.

An un-genuine teacher is probably quite convinced of his or her realization...but alas...has just put on another cloak of cedentials. It can be quite chiily in prison.

Jim
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Advaita teachers Reply with quote

jimK wrote:
There's a whole new crop of Advaita teachers...sprouting up here and there...even some in my backyard Sedona. I've heard that most of these are un-genuine...genetic clones...if you will...off-shoots from their genuine or not so teachers. As an inmate (unenlightened) I cannot possibly tell. Maybe Consciousness can tell. If I really am Consciousness...and if and when this is Realized, there will be no need for either Realized or un-Realized teachers. And...perhaps all off us are Realized...just unapparent- cause we are perceiving from the inmate's point of view.

An un-genuine teacher is probably quite convinced of his or her realization...but alas...has just put on another cloak of cedentials. It can be quite chiily in prison.

Jim



"There is no enlightened meat"

Eli Jaxon Bear
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nemo



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 213
Location: NorCal

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimK,

What are you looking for, expecting from a teacher of non-duality?
I'm sure you know that the "search" of Self via non-duality is not about gaining knowledge.
So, what are you looking for?
For myself, I spent a lot of time clearing out beliefs and doing my own work, divesting myself from the ego (just a way of speaking). Reading Nisargadatta, Hartong, Parsons, McKenna when needed.
At the end, I was stuck in non-dualism land and "split" between dual and non-dual knowings.
I finally went onto the web to look for others who may be in my predicament and "found" a teacher who helped.
He didn't really teach me anything - but answered my questions and pointed in a direction.
I headed in that direction did my work and that seemed to do it.
So, perhaps you are looking for pointers?
Why do you think you need a teacher?
It sounds like you have not dealt with the issue of "inside vs. outside"/authority yet, if you are looking for a teacher.

Also, you are right, if you are not awake it can be hard to tell - but if you are awake you don't need a teacher.
At first I was skeptical - as you sound - but after a few posts, there was *something* I could tell he was the "real deal".
I was past the point that nice knarly zen koans and non-dual-truisms could help. I could write the non-dual lingo as well as most - but ended up so wrapped up in words and quotes and concepts - even non-dual concepts that I was stuck. I needed a push. He provided the inspiration and direction for that push.
I awoke and he's gone. He passed the torch of teacher to me and now I try and help others as best I can.
I am on my own and doing ok. Although it is NOTHING like what I thought it would be....
hope this helps.
Trust your inner voice and vision.

*Yes, I know there is nothing to be done, no one to do it, it's all a dreamstate, it doesn't really matter, mirages/dreamstate characters can't act, etc..*

that's fine once you're awake
and interesting reading while waking up.
and I find ALOT of the non-dualisms can be useful pointers/markers along the way.
Some of us may need another person to talk to about this at some point.
I assume this was the uinderlying point to your post.

j
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heron
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Advaita teachers Reply with quote

jimK wrote:
There's a whole new crop of Advaita teachers...sprouting up here and there...even some in my backyard Sedona. I've heard that most of these are un-genuine...genetic clones...if you will...off-shoots from their genuine or not so teachers. As an inmate (unenlightened) I cannot possibly tell. Maybe Consciousness can tell. If I really am Consciousness...and if and when this is Realized, there will be no need for either Realized or un-Realized teachers. And...perhaps all off us are Realized...just unapparent- cause we are perceiving from the inmate's point of view.

An un-genuine teacher is probably quite convinced of his or her realization...but alas...has just put on another cloak of cedentials. It can be quite chiily in prison.

Jim


Hello Jim

Conditional, and therefore avoidable, liberation stories contain just that, conditions that have to be met, paths to be travelled, and practise that has to be completed before enlightenment or liberation from lack, incompleteness, and separation. Change is required in the ever-changing content of ones life.

In the unconditional, and therefore unavoidable, liberation story there are no conditions that have to be met before liberation. Already nothing is lacking. All is already ONE, complete, whole, and unified. No change is required in life because liberation or enlightenment is not dependant on the content of ones life. No change is present or required in eternal unchanging Oneness
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nemo



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 213
Location: NorCal

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we awaken differently. I agree, there is no rational, mechanical cookbook "method" to awaken. Yet, NOT doing anything is as much doing as doing something.

I like nisargadatta:
"focus on I Am and with earnest effort you may happen upon the right combination of attention and affection".
and:
"Then, the question is what are 'we' -- all of us? Each one of us, as a phenomenon is merely an appearance in the consciousness of those who perceive us, and, therefore, what we appear to be is phenomenon - temporal, finite, and perceptible to the senses; whereas what we have always been and what we shall always be, without name and form is noumenon -- timeless, spaceless, imperceptible being.

However convincingly you may think that you have 'understood' this basic fact, you will find it almost impossible to disassociate yourself from the identification with your name and form as an entity. This can happen only when that which you have been thinking of as a separate entity has been annihilated."
Notice he speaks in the past tense - not as something to be done, but as something that has happended.

When I was struggling to break free I posted here asking for help - who else was in my predicamnet - and received no repsonses. that drove me elsewhere which is what I needed.

I also found thiis helpful, for me:
"Understand, in reality everyone is enlightened, but not everyone knows how to perceive this. The reason is, enlightenment is so natural, so obvious, that from birth we have become accustomed to ignoring it in preference to anything else that manifests. Mediation can train you to still the mind and gain concentration but it will not give you enlightenment. A radical shift in perspective must occur, the habitual focus of your awareness and your way of perceiving must be changed.
Study of books will not get you there, you need a shock. The easiest way I know is for an enlightened person to talk you into this perspective shift. The best books I have read were the ones that talked you into enlightenment. " - Steven Norquist

perhaps I should have used the words "apparently" more frequently in my post.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemo wrote:
we awaken differently. I agree, there is no rational, mechanical cookbook "method" to awaken. Yet, NOT doing anything is as much doing as doing something.

I like nisargadatta:
"focus on I Am and with earnest effort you may happen upon the right combination of attention and affection".
and:
"Then, the question is what are 'we' -- all of us? Each one of us, as a phenomenon is merely an appearance in the consciousness of those who perceive us, and, therefore, what we appear to be is phenomenon - temporal, finite, and perceptible to the senses; whereas what we have always been and what we shall always be, without name and form is noumenon -- timeless, spaceless, imperceptible being.

However convincingly you may think that you have 'understood' this basic fact, you will find it almost impossible to disassociate yourself from the identification with your name and form as an entity. This can happen only when that which you have been thinking of as a separate entity has been annihilated."
Notice he speaks in the past tense - not as something to be done, but as something that has happended.

When I was struggling to break free I posted here asking for help - who else was in my predicamnet - and received no repsonses. that drove me elsewhere which is what I needed.

I also found thiis helpful, for me:
"Understand, in reality everyone is enlightened, but not everyone knows how to perceive this. The reason is, enlightenment is so natural, so obvious, that from birth we have become accustomed to ignoring it in preference to anything else that manifests. Mediation can train you to still the mind and gain concentration but it will not give you enlightenment. A radical shift in perspective must occur, the habitual focus of your awareness and your way of perceiving must be changed.
Study of books will not get you there, you need a shock. The easiest way I know is for an enlightened person to talk you into this perspective shift. The best books I have read were the ones that talked you into enlightenment. " - Steven Norquist

perhaps I should have used the words "apparently" more frequently in my post.




A mind the believes that it has reached 'enlightenment'...................is a mind that believes that it has reached 'enlightenment'.

It is studying medicine in the morgue.





toombaru
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nemo



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 213
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="toombaru"
It is studying medicine in the morgue.

toombaru[/quote]

actually , modern medicine _is_ studied iin a morgue, amongst other places.

see my next post
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Last edited by nemo on Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nemo



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I sound like a teacher it is probably becuase the role being played has a strong teacher aspect to it.
That and all the rest of my posts, being said, what is true (not that you'll ever read anything true here, including "truth cannot be expressed" - that self-denying pointer, or anywhere else, for that matter...)

"IT", the truth is always here, right now, right here. What keeps us from seeing it is our innsistence on concentrating on the content, on distracting ourselves and missing the field of awareness that underlies it. Like looking at the fedex symbol:
(no gofedex.com/ can you see the arrow?)
seen or not, "known" to the mind as a symbol or not, acknowledged or not, "it" is always there. (ok, not "there" there... sigh)
So, yes, I would agree, no practice, task, doing, not doing is going to lead one there.
I don't "teach" in the sense of adding content.
At most I try to help by giving pointers that hopefully point to this "truth".
As we all do - here....
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't "teach" in the sense of adding content.
At most I try to help by giving pointers that hopefully point to this "truth".
As we all do - here....[/quote]



The prison walls are constructed of the belief that there is someone here.


toombaru
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nemo



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and that there are prison walls is belief too
prison walls are contstructed of belief. period. and what is belief?
LOL
there is no one here
yet typing occurs
reading occurs
searching occurs
or appears to.


Laughing

all mirages appearing in the shimmering heat waves of radiance of the source

mirages debating on how to not be a mirage is entertaining in the extreme!
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:

all mirages appearing in the shimmering heat waves of radiance of the source

mirages debating on how to not be a mirage is entertaining in the extreme![/quote]


It is a diversion.........a ploy.......... designed to assuage the pain of what the Buddha called suffering.


toombaru
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nemo



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or to be a grand entertainment for the one
who's to say?
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemo wrote:
or to be a grand entertainment for the one
who's to say?




The "One" that needs to be entertained as an anthropomorphic addendum.

toombaru
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jimK



Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Sedona, Az. USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Nemo...re authority Reply with quote

Something you said struck a chord...re: inside, outside authority figure. Would you elaborate? I do appreciate your smaller "step" approach and your willingness to speak a little less non-dual. Yet I do also appreciate Tombaroo's big step or big sign approach as well. Thank you. ps...I'm checking out your website. Jimm.
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nemo



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point was that there are many assumptions and beliefs we have and these must be jettisoned as part of awaking up.
One belief is that there is "Competent Authority" that somehow knows, is expert in, judges, watches, etc. This Authority (buddha, christ, nisargadatta, leo, your mom, whom or WHATever) is seen as "outside one self and can tell us/help us how to discover who we are.”
Indeed, a distinction is made that there even is an inside and outside.
I would suggest considering this:
What is "inside and outside? relative to what (who).
Look at my post on my site about: "No Others" this may help with this idea.
Or - where does the understanding of the printed squiggles or sounds made (that we call words) so that “you” seem to understand what is written or said.

joe
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