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What is Enlightenment?

 
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nemo



Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject: What is Enlightenment? Reply with quote

The Reality of non-dual awareness (conscious unity) is the simultaneous and perpetual/eternal co-existence in the NOW of transcendental consciousness as passive Witness of all manifest phenomena AND the latter, manifest cosmos.

The "bridge" between these two aspects of One Reality is the active aspect of Consciousness actually creating, i.e., "collapsing the waves" of potential events (in the causal plane) into actual events as actual phenomena/events/experiences.
In the causal plane, consciousness is both the unchanging Witness and the active Agent of this transition from potentials to manifestations... or waves to particles, in quantum lingo. So potentials "precede" manifestations but Consciousness is eternally unchanging as Witneess, i.e., timeless, beyond the event horizon of what precedes what.

from no goenlightenment.com/forums/msgs.cfm?msg=342&forum=2

there you go - hope that clears it all up.
Laughing Rolling Eyes
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sara



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

Aaackkk!!! Where's Occam's Razor when we really need it! Rolling Eyes

Nathan Gill in "Clarity" (it ain't called "clarity" for nuttin') says the same thing and is a far more enjoyable read! AND it's available for free on his website!Razz

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sara
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wizdumb



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: "the light" Reply with quote

While on the subject of enlightenment !

Was Jesus a Buddhist ?

All reference to all things comes from the EGO, how can it not,
......... and how can it !

Standing alone in the mirrored room, naked............
"I" can not see anything,
so where do these scars, come from ?
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nemo wrote:
The Reality of non-dual awareness (conscious unity) is the simultaneous and perpetual/eternal co-existence in the NOW of transcendental consciousness as passive Witness of all manifest phenomena AND the latter, manifest cosmos.

The "bridge" between these two aspects of One Reality is the active aspect of Consciousness actually creating, i.e., "collapsing the waves" of potential events (in the causal plane) into actual events as actual phenomena/events/experiences.
In the causal plane, consciousness is both the unchanging Witness and the active Agent of this transition from potentials to manifestations... or waves to particles, in quantum lingo. So potentials "precede" manifestations but Consciousness is eternally unchanging as Witneess, i.e., timeless, beyond the event horizon of what precedes what.


I could put each of the following sections into more ‘pithy’ separate posts, and make it appear less dogmatic… but that would not be michael’s style would it.

So, with apologies to Occam Very Happy , here is one way the above paragraph may be interpreted:

Interpreting nemo
'potentials' = 'meaning/ideas'='that which is known - but not manifest'.

'manifestation' = 'colours/sounds/flavours/odours/feelings momentarily patterned in concord with that which is known’.

Understanding Reality
Does this understanding reflect ‘reality’?

Not really. No one can say 'what' is the ‘real’ nature of ‘meaning’, nor of 'manifestation', nor of ‘fundamental reality’ or ‘consciousness’.

The Point of this Forum
Given the inability of words to describe reality (to say ‘what’ it is), what the heck is this forum of words all about?

Well it’s about ‘nothing’ really.

And this ‘no thing’ seems to delight in pointing with words and saying ‘look look… here it is’.

The key word here is ‘pointing’… pointing to what is directly here now. This does not involve concepts, but direct awareness. It is not about ‘describing’, but about ‘witnessing’ that which is ‘self evident’… immediately evident to ‘self’.

Words as Pointers to ‘Reality’
What can be said that is not a concept?

Clearly, ‘the known’ is known, meaning is understood... knowing/meaning is 'self evident'. Knowing meaning/concepts/ideas is not itself a concept. What it ‘actually’ is, I cannot say. That it is (that there is ‘knowing/meaning’), of this there is no doubt.

As too seeing/colours, feeling/feelings, hearing/sounds, tasting/flavours and smelling/odours is ‘self evident’. They are no theory, no concept. Nor are they 'things'. Together they are called 'senses/sensations'.

Together with ‘knowing/meaning’, these words are called ‘consciousness’. These words are not descriptors. They simply point to the actual experience that is 'witnessing'… that is ‘consciousness’. This, that it is, requires no interpretation, no validation through concepts. Here it is now… as these words are read..

Pointing: the Appearance of ‘Things’
'Things' now appear in the momentary conjunction of 'meaning' and ‘sensation’. Again, this is no theory. It is 'self evident’.

Seeing/colours, hearing/sounds, feeling/feelings, tasting/flavours and smelling/odours…

In the absence of meaning, what 'things' are there to experience? It is ‘self evident’ that in these circumstances, there are only colours, sounds, flavours, odours and feelings sensed… no ‘thing’ else. This is no theory, no concept.

There are a few other words that commonly provide pointers: ‘One’, ‘No-one’, ‘God’, ‘Spirit’, ‘Isness’… though any word will do to indicate what is clearly here now…

How about ‘Phlzsst’? This is probably the best pointer as it cannot be ‘conceptualised’. Here now (as these words are read), this is it!

Words as Pointers to the ‘Illusion’
The word is not the ‘thing’ itself.

Most words point to ‘things/events’ or to ‘relationships between things/events’… ‘mother’, ‘child’, ‘mother love’, ‘atoms’, ‘electro-magnetism’, ‘freedom’…

No one can see a ‘mother’, or ‘atoms’, or ‘freedom’, or any ‘thing’ else, nor any other ‘relationship’. One sees only ‘colours’. ‘Mother’ is simply the ‘idea/concept/meaning’ applied to the image.

All descriptors speak only of the illusion… the image, manifest phenomena.

Science as Fundamental Descriptor of the Illusion
As any 'physicist' will attest, all scientific formulations are not about 'things'. They are about 'relationships between observed events (manifest phenomena)'. Being based solely on ‘observed events’, all of science refers only to the illusion.

It follows that the words "waves” and “particles" (reference the quote above) do not and cannot point to the nature of ‘reality’.

Through science One portrays the intricate interconnectedness (relationships) of phenomena (illusion) on every scale: making apparent the incredible 'underlying' beauty of creation... mathematics speaking the language of love.

Science is also a metaphor for 'power'... the power to create.

Power of Creation
Here are some definitions of ‘power’:

- Possession of controlling influence; "the power of his love saved her".
OK, but 'what’ is this 'power of love'?

- (physics) the rate of doing work; measured in watts (= joules/second). Yes, but the 'power' itself is not observable.

- Possession of the qualities (especially mental qualities) required to do something or get something done; "danger heightened his powers of discrimination". Again, such 'power' is not observable directly: 'what' is 'mental power'?

- Physical strength. This power may seem directly observable, but it is not. Seeing a person lift a heavy weight may be a demonstration of 'power', but the event is not the power that impels the apparent lifting.

- Supply the force or power for the functioning of; "The gasoline powers the engines". Again, the effect is apparent (a moving car), but the actual ‘power’ is not.

Even on these definitions, 'power' itself is not a 'thing' that can be sensed, only its effects are observed.

But, someone may say, I can see a bomb explode. I can see the power of the explosion and if I am too close also feel it!

Yet the appearance of 'bits and pieces' flying away from each other are not ‘power’. The 'force' causing this apparent effect is not observable. Certainly the apparent impact may be felt, but the ‘feeling’ is not the power.

Indeed, there are no 'bits and pieces', no ‘shockwave’, nothing exploding, nothing impacting.

As in a dream (or holodek), there are only:

colours (sensation) and meaning (‘bomb flash and debris'), and
sounds (sensation) and meaning ('explosion'), and
smell and taste (sensation) and meaning ('explosive'), and
feeling (sensation) and meaning (‘debris/shockwave hitting my body’).

Without meaning, there is no 'experience'... just momentary 'flashes' of sensation… meaningless.

Power is 'seen' in its effects… as seeing is 'seen' in the effect of 'colour' and smelling in the effect of 'odour', etc.

The only observed effects of ‘power’ are the apparent concord of sensations and meaning in the moment… giving rise to the ‘experience’.

No one can say ‘what’ creates these effects.

Is there any 'power' outside consciousness 'making things appear'… which one is then ‘forced to observe’?

This question pre-supposes an ‘inside’ and ‘outside’ to consciousness… which is not ‘observable’.

As both ‘One’ and ‘No-One’ are pointers to the reality of Being, so it may be said that all Appearances arise ‘spontaneously’, and also said that all Appearances are by (power), through and for Consciousness (One/No-One) alone.

To the extent these words (‘spontaneous’ and ‘power’) are meaningful, they are just concepts.

Unobserved (unsensed and unknown)… here it is… ‘observing/knowing’… each moment ‘creating’ this play of life anew.

Love
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sara



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:


I could put each of the following sections into more ‘pithy’ separate posts, and make it appear less dogmatic… but that would not be michael’s style would it.

So, with apologies to Occam Very Happy .......


Silly boy! Rolling Eyes

It is known, of course, that oneness posting as michael is ALWAYS greeted here with open delight!

Your posts are 'pointing' treasure hunts created to be printed out and relished, every delicious bite thoroughly enjoyed!

And there's a nice full, exquisitely satisfying feeling of having eaten really well!!!

Now oneness as sara is off to cozy up with spicy winter tea and ginger nut bread and continue eating...er...reading! Yum!

love,
slowly savouring sara Very Happy
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heron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slowly savouring sara
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sara



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

dear heron....

Back atcha, darlin'!!! Very Happy

Hope you don't mind if I c/p this so gid can "see it"?!:

heron wrote:

In this unconditional liberation story, Oneness does all by and to itself, and I really do mean ALL, including what you believe to be 'your' reaction now reading this, and your next..........reation.........feeling.........sensation.........thought
......and the next......and the next........and the next.......and the next.

What you currently regard as your actions are not dependent on you choosing.......they never have been dependent on that and never will be. It has always been Oneness and always will.

In this story you are not what you have always believed yourself to be. You are the eternal stillness moving, and silence sounding, that was never born and will never die. You are that eternal which CREATES the illusion of your birth and death, the drama in between, and the universe in which it is all played out.

Oneness plays all the characters, props, scenery, writes all the scripts, and speaks all the lines in the play

Oneness plays hide and seek with itself for the relief and pleasure of realizing that is was never lost, but it does not need to realize this in order to be Oneness. It is already Oneness! There is nothing else it can be! Only in the illusion of the play does it APPEAR as though it needs to find itself. Should Oneness find itself then the seeker is no more.........but only in the illusion of the play! That is all that happens in so called awakening. It is part of the illusion, and has nothing to do with becoming Oneness. You are already that.....there is only that!!!

So there is no-one separate who can do anything. It doesn't matter that you can't do anything to become what you already are.

Is it seen..........this illusory liberation that you don't need and don't have to do or be anything to get ?

You don't have to buy it to see it !!!



AND:

heron wrote:
There is no meaning or purpose to it, for all is already One regardless of dreamt awakening. Yet Oneness appears to continue dreaming the awakening dream with it's dreamt characters. And as such, we are not responsible for whether we play the game, or what we say in it. Yet in the movie, the illusory we sometimes blame, or take pride, for what we say, even though there is nothing being said and no-one choosing to say it.

Oneness dreamt the story, and the attempt to be clear about it, the questions, the questioner, the questioning, the answers, the answering, and the answerer, for no reason or purpose whatsoever.

Oneness may continue to arise as questions, a willingness to respond, or resentment at the attempt. Either way it's all Oneness. Each the other and the One Love in Action.

No opposition dreams opposition where there is none



Juicy..... 'innit', gidsee? Wink


love,
sara blown away Shocked
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heron
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks sara

Pembrokeshire Library has filtered gid's topic "What I am". Something offended them so cant access it until back in Ceredigion on Wednesday.
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sara



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Laughing

ROTFLOL! And then: ROCLLC!!!

Musta been michael's "arsehole" story! Wink Laughing (Has this thread been blocked, too?!)

And, also, I did happen to blushingly notice that he used the "f" word! Shocked

Tut tut, michael. SOOoooo unlike you! <swoon>


Wonder what your library did to the "Tony Parson's leg amputation" thread?!!! "Cause that one was REALLY smokin'! <whew>

I'll bet librarians print out some of the juicier threads before they block access, and giggle over them during their coffee breaks! (Oh no, I hope you're not a librarian!!! Embarassed I mean, some of my best friends.....oh, fu...rk!)


OT: Liza's luscious looking little book just arrived! Very Happy Wow! Talk about Occam's Razor: it has 101 pages, IF you count the publisher's info! That's fewer words than one of michael's extended discourses! (Just kidding, REALLY...... just kidding! Wink )

Anyway, I've already glanced through "Life" and it looks like my 'cuppa', at least starting about half way through when it gets to the 'meat course." I got a huge kick outa pages 48 & 49! LOL

And I don't think there's anything in there that would upset Pembrokeshire! Rolling Eyes

She has her picture on the back cover and I definitely remember her at one of Tony's workshops in Wales. She sat on the floor at my feet, big smile on her face, and never said a word! Laughing

love,
sarcumspect
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara, sorry about the 'arsehole' and saying 'fuck'... these are not usually words I put together in the same story Embarassed

Uh oh...

Now see what you made me do... I've said arsehole and fuck again and...

Oh no, not again, Bugger!

Oops I don't mean that literally Shocked

It just that using words to say what I don't mean can tie myself in 'nots'

PS U GOT 2B 20... PART OF TXT MSG GEN Cool

Soooooo infuriating Very Happy

Love
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sara



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSL!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing


michael wrote:
sara, sorry about the 'arsehole' and saying 'fuck'... these are not usually words I put together in the same story Embarassed

Uh oh...

Now see what you made me do... I've said arsehole and fuck again and...

Oh no, not again, Bugger!

Oops I don't mean that literally Shocked

It just that using words to say what I don't mean can tie myself in 'nots'


Oh gr8! 2 l8! Neutral Heron's probably b& from Pembrokeshire and hauled off to gaol as we type! Rolling Eyes And with "bugger" (is that something to do with tantric buddhism? Shocked), it's solitary or, with luck, a beheading with one of Tony's swords. Uh...JJ, Leo.

michael wrote:
PS U GOT 2B 20... PART OF TXT MSG GEN Cool

Soooooo infuriating Very Happy

Love


Oh....ok.....ur forgiven. Flatary wil g3t u ev3rythng......

ROTFLOL = roll on the floor laughing out loud

ROCLLC = roll on carpet laughing like crazy

CSL = can't stop laughing

There! I've 'proved it!' Wink

4eva,
saracro Cool
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michael



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a great movie called:

I am Sam.

Sam is mostly laughing... except when he thinks he is going to lose the love of his life.

The tag line is 'Love is all you need".

LLLLSS Laughing

Love Loves Lovely Laughing Sam/Sara Cool

And where is SamSara now?... near vana, of course Confused

As Heather Nova sings: you're my yellow summer... my winterblues.

... You are the everything (R.E.M)

L
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sara



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:
There's a great movie called:

I am Sam.

Sam is mostly laughing... except when he thinks he is going to lose the love of his life.

The tag line is 'Love is all you need".


Ah, yes.....and love is all there IS..... isn't that just wow marvelous!!! *YAY*

I just saw the trailer. So wonderful! 'Course it is known that no one could ever lose the love, it's always intimately here.

I liked the line, "Yeah, we ARE lucky......aren't we LUCKY?!!!!

And: "I'm going home." And the adorable little character that plays 'Lucy" IS home......is always home!

As maple3 says: everything is seen through new eyes when this is clearly known, even before lib.



michael wrote:
LLLLSS Laughing

Love Loves Lovely Laughing Sam/Sara Cool

And where is SamSara now?... near vana, of course Confused


Hmmm...vana. I like that. Very Happy From wiki: Vana is the name of a fictional character from J. R. R. Tolkien's legendarium. She is also called the Ever-young. "All flowers spring as she passes and open if she glances upon them; and all birds sing at her coming." She dwells in gardens filled with golden flowers and often comes to the forests.


michael wrote:
As Heather Nova sings: you're my yellow summer... my winterblues.


Oh! PERFECT:

I love you like a jungle fever
I'll never never never leave
Through every vein and every fibre
I'll never never never leave!
NOVA



michael wrote:
... You are the everything (R.E.M)

L


AND REM!!! (oh oh...... you never should've gotten me started!)

Here's a scene:
You're in the back seat laying down
The windows wrap around
To sound of the travel and the engine
All you hear is time stand still in travel
and feel such peace and absolute
The stillness still that doesn't end
But slowly drifts into sleep
The stars are the greatest thing you've ever seen
And they're there for you
For you alone you are the everything


That is one of the best pointers eva!!! Innit?! Wink I still love to do that. Feels so good. Sweet invitation to just surrender into the arms of love.

love,
saramelts
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