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Tony Parsons' leg amputation
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More tinkering.

Post on 16 Jan revised too

You'd think if I had something to say I could say it, wouldn't you Very Happy

Love
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heron
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="DaveK"]

"Nisargadatta advises me to be 100% devoted to realization. Ramana Maharshi advices unceasing self inquiry. But Tony Parsons, Gangaji, and others emphasize that seeking solidifies the illusion that I'm not already home "

If the source...........Home.............is already all, then seeking is Home seeking, so no separation from Home is possible whatever is thought, felt, or action taken. The thought/feeling of not being this, and seeking it........is as much Home as the thought/feeling of being it, and not seeking it.

No escape from total unicity REGARDLESS of what may appear, or seem to be happening.



[/i]
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="heron"]
DaveK wrote:


"Nisargadatta advises me to be 100% devoted to realization. Ramana Maharshi advices unceasing self inquiry. But Tony Parsons, Gangaji, and others emphasize that seeking solidifies the illusion that I'm not already home "

If the source...........Home.............is already all, then seeking is Home seeking, so no separation from Home is possible whatever is thought, felt, or action taken. The thought/feeling of not being this, and seeking it........is as much Home as the thought/feeling of being it, and not seeking it.

No escape from total unicity REGARDLESS of what may appear, or seem to be happening.



[/i]



.......and yet the seeking of that realization occurs.


toombaru
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maple3



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 1065
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara wrote:
"It's life, captain, but not life as we know it." Spock

LOL ... Don'tcha just love the way non-duality puts a new spin on old words. Laughing


Love
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
heron wrote:
DaveK wrote:


"Nisargadatta advises me to be 100% devoted to realization. Ramana Maharshi advices unceasing self inquiry. But Tony Parsons, Gangaji, and others emphasize that seeking solidifies the illusion that I'm not already home "

If the source...........Home.............is already all, then seeking is Home seeking, so no separation from Home is possible whatever is thought, felt, or action taken. The thought/feeling of not being this, and seeking it........is as much Home as the thought/feeling of being it, and not seeking it.


No escape from total unicity REGARDLESS of what may appear, or seem to be happening.[/i]



.......and yet the seeking of that realization occurs.


I'm reading a book. In the book, there is a character seeking for enlightenment. Though I know the story... I'm not seeking. There really is no seeking occurring, yet I 'know' seeking. No one is deluded by this 'knowing'. It is simply known.

Instead of reading, I hook up to a holodek. Now it seems I am the character doing the seeking, having the experience. Yet there is no character seeking. There is just my brain connected to the holodek. This brain is passively receiving stimulus and generating the 'sensations' being experienced and the 'meaning' that is known. No one is 'deluded' by this 'knowing'. It is simply known.

Instead of being hooked up to a holodek...

Well, there really are no holodeks, nor books, nor people reading them. Very Happy

All 'things', 'events', 'relationships' are simply known. No one is deluded by this knowing.

Who knows this?

The same that knows the meaning of these words. Very Happy

Love
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maple3 wrote:
sara wrote:
"It's life, captain, but not life as we know it." Spock

LOL ... Don'tcha just love the way non-duality puts a new spin on old words. Laughing


Love


Laughing

How 'bout this:

"Sorry about your crew, but as we say on Earth, c'est la vie." Kirk

love,
sara
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michael



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the perspective of most people, 'matter' seems so 'hard' and 'real', that it seems nonsense to speak of the world as an 'illusion'.

Yet, even from a 'scientific perspective', what is perceived is 'mind stuff', not 'matter stuff'. Confused

So for those who seem still to see the world as hard and real, separate from themselves, why not explore the idea of 'matter', to see where it goes? Cool

(For the non-dual purist, please note... any reference to 'people' or any 'thing' else is simply a matter of language... a means of telling the story. There is no belief here that there is any one out there...not even you... or me. Shocked Cool Very Happy Yet it is known that these words are read from the perspective of every person who seems to read them Cool Very Happy )

Let's start by accepting the (19th century) 'scientific' view that the world is real (not an illusion), that 'matter' is the 'substance' of all the forms we see, that these forms really do exist outside and separate from us (our bodies) and lastly, that matter in brains is the only cause of (self) awareness.

On this view, without brains, there can be no perception, no self awareness.

From this view point, the idea that 'I' am both "the observing and the observed" appears to be a nonsense idea. Yet even science attests that this is so! Shocked

I referred to the opening premise as the '19th century view', though the world is still seen this way from the perspective of many scientists.

Yet quantum physics shows that there is no absolute substance.

No physicist can visualise 'what' their science describes. It is more like a 'web of relations', in which everything is inter-connected... wherein it is impossible to separate out the observer and observed. Surprised

To see that this is so (not how it is) we can use the model of science to test its own hypothesis.

The first thing to know is that according to science, 'light' itself is invisible... it is simply 'energy' that acts as a 'signal' transmitting information to the brain that then 'interprets' the signal and translates it into a 'visual image' inside the brain. Shocked

To understand this, let us follow 'light' from the 'sun' to a 'tree'. As it hits the tree, some of the energy of the light is absorbed. The rest is reflected through the 'air' to an 'eye'. Entering the lens, it travels through the fluid in the eyeball until it finally gives up its energy to the sodium and potassium ions in the retina at the back of the eye. Shocked At this point it ceases to be 'light'. Surprised The energy is then transmitted along the optic nerve as an electro-chemical 'impulse'.

Even at this stage there is no seeing (you know this because science attests that if the nerve is severed it is impossible to see). Science says (and tests prove it.... just like with Spock on the holodek Cool ) that only after the energy enters the visual cortex (at the back of the head) does seeing take place. Confused

At that point, the green tree appears and you say "I see a green tree".

Such seeing does not entail some little 'you' looking from some vantage point inside the head out along the optic nerve into the 'real world'. The nerve is opaque and all the energy flows are 'in'.

At that point the only real activity (according to science) is the electro-chemical fluctuations in your head.

For seeing to take place, this 'activity' must see its own activity (not as the activity itself) - but as the image of a tree (and everything else that is perceived)! Shocked Surprised Confused Very Happy

Of course, in the case of the supposed atoms and molecules that supposedly form the visual cortex, they are not outside the supposed head and have no way of verifying that the image seen is a replica of the supposed real tree (made of supposed atoms and molecules) that is the supposed source of the image, in the supposed real world.

On this 'scientific' analysis, everything believed about 'the world', about 'who I am', and about 'seeing' and the other senses is 'supposition'.

On this analysis, the seeing and the seen are one! The image is not real.

'Seeing/colours', hearing/sounds, smelling/odours, feelings/feelings, tasting/flavours and knowing/meaning is 'self evident'. It is no theory.

However, all ideas about the seeing and the seen, or knowing and meaning, etc.. are just that: 'ideas' - no more. As such, they are theories that can never be verified.

Which raises the question: what then are 'you'? On this analysis, any 'body' seen and felt is but an image and sensations 'in awareness'. Any thoughts too are but fleeting ideas 'in awareness'.

'You' can never see beyond the image to get at the reality that is aware of it!

What is seen right now (these very words and everything else in the visual field) really is only an image and that image is the seeing 'experience' - it is inseparable from you - it is who you really are:

The Awareness that senses/knows All.

You are back to the beginning - affirming what was first denied: 'the world' is an illusion, not real.

That which reads these words is alone real.

Love
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Last edited by michael on Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:54 am; edited 3 times in total
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara, I see you are browsing... good to have you on board the holodek Very Happy

Love
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't miss it for the 'world', Capt'n! Very Happy

and yet:

michael wrote:
There is no belief here that there is any one out there...not even you.


".....where no one has gone before." Kirk

love,
sara
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michael



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah Ha!

One is really a trekkie!

No more searching, the light is on.

"Beam me up scotty" Very Happy

Love
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michael



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara wrote:
and yet:

michael wrote:
There is no belief here that there is any one out there...not even you.


See we are one Very Happy

In fact, I've amended the posting (again!!!) to recognise that even I'm not real Very Happy It now reads:

"There is no belief here that there is any one out there...not even you... or me!" Very Happy

And yet, it is known that these words are read from the perspective of every person who seems to read them.

So yes sara, it is great to have you and maple3 and toombaru and leo and heron and nemo and DaveK and fox and... well everyone, 'on board'.

It would not be the same without you... and it is always the same Very Happy

Love
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heron
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="toombaru"]
heron wrote:
DaveK wrote:


"Nisargadatta advises me to be 100% devoted to realization. Ramana Maharshi advices unceasing self inquiry. But Tony Parsons, Gangaji, and others emphasize that seeking solidifies the illusion that I'm not already home "

If the source...........Home.............is already all, then seeking is Home seeking, so no separation from Home is possible whatever is thought, felt, or action taken. The thought/feeling of not being this, and seeking it........is as much Home as the thought/feeling of being it, and not seeking it.

No escape from total unicity REGARDLESS of what may appear, or seem to be happening.



[/i]



.......and yet the seeking of that realization occurs.


toombaru


Apparently...........and that's as much Home as not seeking it.............no escape.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="heron"]
toombaru wrote:
heron wrote:
DaveK wrote:


"Nisargadatta advises me to be 100% devoted to realization. Ramana Maharshi advices unceasing self inquiry. But Tony Parsons, Gangaji, and others emphasize that seeking solidifies the illusion that I'm not already home "

If the source...........Home.............is already all, then seeking is Home seeking, so no separation from Home is possible whatever is thought, felt, or action taken. The thought/feeling of not being this, and seeking it........is as much Home as the thought/feeling of being it, and not seeking it.

No escape from total unicity REGARDLESS of what may appear, or seem to be happening.



[/i]



.......and yet the seeking of that realization occurs.


toombaru


Apparently...........and that's as much Home as not seeking it.............no escape.




The mind of man has no place to rest its weary head.



toombaru
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heron
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="toombaru"]
heron wrote:
toombaru wrote:
heron wrote:
DaveK wrote:


"Nisargadatta advises me to be 100% devoted to realization. Ramana Maharshi advices unceasing self inquiry. But Tony Parsons, Gangaji, and others emphasize that seeking solidifies the illusion that I'm not already home "

If the source...........Home.............is already all, then seeking is Home seeking, so no separation from Home is possible whatever is thought, felt, or action taken. The thought/feeling of not being this, and seeking it........is as much Home as the thought/feeling of being it, and not seeking it.

No escape from total unicity REGARDLESS of what may appear, or seem to be happening.



[/i]



.......and yet the seeking of that realization occurs.


toombaru


Apparently...........and that's as much Home as not seeking it.............no escape.




The mind of man has no place to rest its weary head.



toombaru


No doubt there are many such places on the holodeck but they never seem to last......probably the batteries run out, or the Klingons keep blowing them up.

There is a long queue for peace for someone

There is no queue for peace for no-one.
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maple3



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 1065
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara wrote:
Wouldn't miss it for the 'world', Capt'n! Very Happy

and yet:

michael wrote:
There is no belief here that there is any one out there...not even you.


".....where no one has gone before." Kirk


Saramazing, do you just sit at the computer typing and giggling at yourself? Laughing
Well, you should! ... Honey, you're really loads of fun! Very Happy


michael wrote:
"Beam me up scotty" Very Happy

Oh, I knew this one was coming, but just couldn't figure out how you would work it in... but of course, as usual, you never let me down. Wink Very Happy


So why do I now have such a deep longing for Star Trek reruns? Aiyee! Rolling Eyes



Love


Last edited by maple3 on Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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