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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"What the bleep do we know"... pretty superficial Crying or Very sad Cool Very Happy

As regards QM, the maths simply express relationships between numbers. QM says nothing about 'things', let alone 'reality' (whatever this is Very Happy )

And yet the numbers appear to 'map' the behaviour of 'apparent things'.

'Doing science' is like watching images on a computer screen and then deducing the rules governing the behaviour of screen images. Cool

Even if the 'rules' exactly describe how one apparent object behaves in relation to other apparent objects (on the screen), the 'laws' can never say anything about the nature of the computer/screen hardware and software that actually creates the images! Surprised

... let alone the 'consciousness' that observes the images. Shocked

(There are no 'scientists', 'computers' or 'screen images'... apart from the 'knowing' of these 'things', given apparent substance through sensation... by through and for 'consciousness'. 'What' are these 'known things' and 'sensations'... no idea Very Happy )

QM appears as a partial description of the relative behaviour of the 'apparent things' experienced in Consciousness... showing how one 'apparent thing' behaves relative to other 'apparent 'things'. QM and any words such as 'energy field' or 'force' used to describe 'reality' are not 'imperfect'... they are simply 'meaningless'...

As meaningless as imputing a 'force' as the cause of behaviour observed between images on a computer screen.

Say the image of a bat appears to deflect the image of a ball. From observing many apparent interactions on the screen, it is possible to propound the 'law' governing the trajectory of the 'ball' after apparently contacting the 'bat' (including the effect of an apparent 'gravitational force').

(Deduction/Induction is an illusion... nothing can be learned that is not known Cool )

But how silly to think that the 'law' is describing a 'real force' between objects on the screen, or that the 'law' describes the 'fundamental reality' of the computer/screen/software... or the consciousness that is aware of the images. Embarassed

(In fact there are no 'things' on the screen, just changing coloured patterns that are associated with certain 'meaning'... so they are seen as 'moving things'.)

It is just as silly to think that the 'forces of nature' ('Newton'), or 'warped space-time' ('Einstein'), or 'strings' or other QM concepts have any meaning in describing the 'fundamental reality of consciousness'.

Love
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 903
Location: below sea level

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

Ah, Mike the knife! Twisted Evil Amazing how easily you seem to slice through the deep hard hidden patterns and resistances! Precisely exposing that which is blocking the flow of source. Cool

michael wrote:
Actually dear maple3, it takes nothing to get me started Very Happy

Love


For this there is eternal gratitude "from source to source!" Very Happy

You remind me of Zhuangzi's master butcher: "My knife glides in and out between the bone joints, moving as it pleases; the cow suffers no pain and in the end, doesn't even know that it's dead."

Love,
sarasliced Exclamation
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignorance... ignoring that which is known. Cool

Nothing is revealed that is not already known... there really is no 'mike' to reveal nor 'sara' to be surprised by, or opened up to 'new' knowledge.

That which is known is in awareness in the moment it is re-cognised... no 'other' is the source of this knowing.

This is by through and for the Beloved... alone.

It is like hearing a symphony and thinking how wonderful is the composer and the instrument makers and musicians and conductor who together make this beautiful sound.

There are none of these. The sound is in the hearing in the moment it is heard... one alone creates this sound which itself is not 'the beauty'. (sound itself is neither beautiful nor ugly). The beauty cannot be 'defined'. It is inseparable from...

Love
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 903
Location: below sea level

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:
Ignorance... ignoring that which is known. Cool

This is by through and for the Beloved... alone.

It is like hearing a symphony and thinking how wonderful is the composer and the instrument makers and musicians and conductor who together make this beautiful sound.

There are none of these. The sound is in the hearing in the moment it is heard... one alone creates this sound which itself is not 'the beauty'. (sound itself is neither beautiful nor ugly). The beauty cannot be 'defined'. It is inseparable from...

Love


The "aussie rules" again!

That was as clear as crystal, mate!

Thank you, tofkam*!



By the way, it looks like the "666" curse was broken just when 'you' reached "999" posts! Yeay!!! And tofkas* has had the great good fortune of having read almost all of them! And now 'you're' at 1000! So....

THANK YOU AND CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Shouldn't there be flowers, champagne and chocolate?!! Idea

love,
sarawowed Very Happy

*the one formerly known as michael/sara
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awakening
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara wrote:

By the way, it looks like the "666" curse was broken just when 'you' reached "999" posts! Yeay!!! And tofkas* has had the great good fortune of having read almost all of them! And now 'you're' at 1000! So....

THANK YOU AND CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Shouldn't there be flowers, champagne and chocolate?!! Idea

love,
sarawowed Very Happy
*the one formerly known as michael/sara


To offer Michael champagne an chocolate as the one who posted would perhaps contradict the part you quoted. Here are the same words with a small alteration:

It is like reading a posting and thinking how wonderful is the composer and the computer makers and webmasters and programmers who together make this beautiful expression.

There are none of these. The message is in the reading in the moment it is read.. one alone creates this expression which itself is not 'the beauty'. (words itself are neither beautiful nor ugly). The beauty cannot be 'defined'. It is inseparable from...

On the other hand.... Iím with you. An opportunity to celebrate should not be missed. Perhaps Fox can get us some of that primo Swiss Chocolate.
Very Happy
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awakening wrote:
It is like reading a posting and thinking how wonderful is the composer and the computer makers and webmasters and programmers who together make this beautiful expression.

There are none of these. The message is in the reading in the moment it is read.. one alone creates this expression which itself is not 'the beauty'. (words itself are neither beautiful nor ugly). The beauty cannot be 'defined'. It is inseparable from...


Tears rising...

Heart smiling

Love
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heron
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara wrote:
Laughing

Hi maple3, so gigglingly great to 'see' you again! *HUGE HUG!!!*


Michael, would we ever make fun of you?! Why would source make fun of source? 'Cause it's fun? Wink (Really, though, the 'words' that flow through 'you' from one are amazing and wonderful, way beyond 'words'!!!)


sara wrote:

Ummm......It's actually more like teleconferencing in this 'site', though. Question

So......

could you maybe edit your post to reflect that? Razz


Actually, that was not a totally frivolous remark: a post (a story) about this 'forum', where the dream characters, seeing only squiggles on a glowing screen, sensually feel about in the dark for each other, thus sharpening intuition and creating hilarious comedy, would definitely be a 'best seller'! (It might even find its way to fox's fabulous website!)

And, what is apparently 'unique' about this is, even though there is shameless teasing (ahem Embarassed) and pretending going on all the time (and rollicking laughter! Laughing), it 'means' nothing Razz since there is really none of the yucky 'stickiness' of waiting, seeking, wanting or expecting anything from the one to the one that is the only one here! (ALTHOUGH, according to heron, that would be totally appropriate, too: just one being 'yucky sticky' with itself!) *whew*

Maybe source finds this whole game de'light'fully entertaining, ya 'think'?! Wink Laughing

love,
sarastory


sensually feeling about.
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 903
Location: below sea level

PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, SO happy to 'see' heron here! YEAY!!! Very Happy

You stand perfectly still until all is "utterly quiescent"; then suddenly You swoop in, seizing me in your long sharp bill....your prey.... a gasping, helplessly flapping rainbow trout! Surprised

Yet..... I'm the one who feeds! Wink

love,
sarafull
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heron
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara wrote:
Ah, SO happy to 'see' heron here! YEAY!!! Very Happy

You stand perfectly still until all is "utterly quiescent"; then suddenly You swoop in, seizing me in your long sharp bill....your prey.... a gasping, helplessly flapping rainbow trout! Surprised

Yet..... I'm the one who feeds! Wink

love,
sarafull


Even though it was dark, the brilliant rainbow colours glissened, catching the herons eye...........shine on sara.
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 903
Location: below sea level

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heron.....

Rise in slow motion from this dark pond
stretch your long smooth neck toward the sky
water cascading from polished plumage

Up! Aerial arrow..... huge wings expand!
Leave the dragonflies and misty reeds behind
and carry me through the gray clouds
toward the hunter's moon

and I will shine.... still fresh....
with shimmering joy!

love,
saraglow
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fox



Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 821
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The message is in the reading in the moment it is read.. one alone creates this expression which itself is not 'the beauty'. (words itself are neither beautiful nor ugly). The beauty cannot be 'defined'. It is inseparable from...

On the other hand.... Iím with you. An opportunity to celebrate should not be missed. Perhaps Fox can get us some of that primo Swiss Chocolate.



The taste of the wonderful chocolate doesn't exist - except in the tasting of it, which I am doing at this very moment - yummy!

Razz
chocolate-fox
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heron
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara wrote:
heron.....

Rise in slow motion from this dark pond
stretch your long smooth neck toward the sky
water cascading from polished plumage

Up! Aerial arrow..... huge wings expand!
Leave the dragonflies and misty reeds behind
and carry me through the gray clouds
toward the hunter's moon

and I will shine.... still fresh....
with shimmering joy!

love,
saraglow


Flashing swirling colours
winged into sky
and in place of either bird or fish
The rainbow shone on high.

Love
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 903
Location: below sea level

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy

Dear heron!

I thought I'd wait until this silly smile subsided!
But it's still there on my face, in my heart and pouring through these happy fingers!

Running on the beach earlier today, in the snow, tasting the salt water, laughing and dancing with the seeping sparkling waves!

What is going on?! Laughing

love,
sarasoaring
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sara, you had better be careful or the devil might get you... having all this fun. You know life was not meant to be easy. Evil or Very Mad All that dancing could strain your back Crying or Very sad Here is a cautionary tale (though you need to be an Australian to really appreciate the tag line Very Happy

In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth and populated Earth with broccoli, cauliflower, spinach and green, yellow and red vegetables of all kinds, so Man and Woman would live long and healthy lives.

Then using God's great gifts, Satan created Ice Cream, Custard and Cream donuts. And Satan said, "You want chocolate with that?" And they both gained 5 kilos. And Satan smiled.

And God created the healthful Yogurt that Woman might keep the figure that Man found so fair

And Satan brought forth white flour from the wheat and sugar from the cane and combined them. And Woman went from size 8 to size 18.

So God said, "Try my fresh green salad."

And Satan presented Thousand Island Dressing, buttery croutons and garlic toast on the side. And Man and Woman unfastened their belts following the meal.

God then said, "I have sent you heart healthy vegetables and olive oil in which to cook them."

And Satan brought forth deep fried fish and chicken, and fried steak so big it needed its own platter. And Man gained more weight and his cholesterol went through the roof.

God then created a light, fluffy white cake and named it "Angel Cake" And said, "It is good." Satan then created chocolate cake and named it "Devil's Food."

Then God brought forth the potato, naturally low in fat and brimming with nutrition.

And Satan peeled the healthful skin and sliced the starchy center into chips and deep-fried them. And Man gained more kilos.

God then brought forth running shoes so that His children might lose those extra kilos.

And Satan gave cable TV with remote control so Man would not have to toil changing the channels. And Man and Woman laughed and sat before the flickering blue light and put on more weight.

God then gave lean beef so that Man might consume fewer calories and still satisfy his appetite.

And Satan created McDonald's and its double cheeseburger. Then said, "You want fries with that?" and Man replied, "Yes! And super size them." And Satan said, "It is good." And Man went into Cardiac Arrest.

God sighed and created quadruple bypass surgery...

Then Satan created the Queensland State Health Department. Cool Very Happy

Love
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 903
Location: below sea level

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

Oh, great! Confused

Just when everything was beginning to return to 'normal', the 'beamish' glee returns! Embarassed Ya know, this is embarrassing: 'people' are starting to talk!

And it's fairly well known that there's something rather odd about those who live "down under". Like, it's freezing cold here and probably hot as 'hell' where 'you' are! Twisted Evil (Hmmm.......maybe we all should fly south and stay with 'michael' in beautiful Melbourne during the winter months! Idea )

Oh well, what the hell.....

"O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Love,
sara'devil-may-care'
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