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Are there objects "out there"???
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deja vu...

The reality is neither awake nor asleep, dreaming nor not dreaming, but is afterall 'indescribable'.

As a finger pointing, the best words to describe the 'seeing through appearances' are 'leo's': 'Awakening to the Dream'... not Awakening from the Dream.

It just means 'seeing it for what it is' (like waking in a lucid dream and realising it is a dream), not just 'intellectually', 'but 'experientially'.

There is still 'experience', but 'that which is experiencing' cannot locate, describe, or separate 'itself' from the 'whole experience'. One can no longer say 'I', as opposed to 'all' or 'other' in any meaningful sense.

The apparent world is still seen from the perspective of michael and the life of michael is still lived as a 'normal bloke'. Only if there is an attempt to locate this 'michael' is it apparent that there is no 'me' here separate from 'all'.

No one can experience the 'inexperienceable'. It is impossible to experience 'nothing as nothing'... not as 'cold' or 'unfeeling' or 'lonely' or any other 'negative' (or positive) feeling or idea. All these are 'experiences' and though not separate from that which experiences, they are not it.

It is said that One's true nature is revealed in 'Deep Sleep' when there are no colours, sounds, tastes, smells, feelings or ideas in awareness. This state cannot be remembered. For 'in' it, there is nothing to be remembered... perhaps 'Bliss' is the word that best points to it. Though this would seem to imply that there is a difference between one 'state' and 'another'... when the reality is unchanging. That which does not change cannot have 'two states'.

Who hates/fears 'deep sleep'?

The fear of 'the nothing' is simply the sensation of fear combined with an idea of 'nothing' being 'cold', 'lonely', 'unfeeling'...

Reality is nothing like the idea. Nothing to fear at all.

This 'nothing' is 'all'... eternally.

It is Life itself... the Living One.

The creature cries: praise be to God in the Highest!

Well, now that's explained, I'm going to have a cup of tea

Love
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awakening
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:

Well, now that's explained, I'm going to have a cup of tea
Love


Thanks Michael...and I'm glad that this 'normal bloke' is not attempting to explain the taste of tea.... and yet he allways seems willing to offer and share a cuppa...

Hot chocolate or orange tea anyone?
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or a cold beer...

And the best cold beer is 'Vic'... Victoria Bitter

AHHH (theme music plays)

... or a Fosters Very Happy

Its been in the high 30's the last few days and there is nothing like a coldie to quench the thirst.

(I get commission) Cool

Love
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
... without eyes seeing anything.


Being seen, no eye ever sees.

'To close your eyes' is an expression. There are no eyes to open or close... only seeing.

Love
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awakening wrote:
cimages wrote:
I DON'T GET IT!

Peace!


The bad news: You never will.
The good news: There is no you to get it,
or not get it.

Got it Question
Or not... Very Happy

Or as Michael would say.....
"And yet... "


Sorry...the proper ND terminology would be..."It's not gotten."

For a minute there I forgot myself & thought I was somebody...silly me!

In the words of a GREAT philosopher

I AM SOMEBODY....No that was Jesse Jackson

I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN....No, that was Bill Clinton

WE WILL BE WELCOMED AS LIBERATORS...No, that was Dick Cheney

I HAVE NEVER TAKEN STEROIDS, PERIOD....No, that was Rafael Palmero

I DON'T GET IT....No, that was me!

NO WONDER THERE IS CONFUSION! So many characters no wonder I can't keep them straight, or me straight, or it straight....but if not for this I would be bored to death.

Oh well.....You know what I mean....proper ND terminology....know what mean!....but that really doesn't sound right.

Peace!
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:
Deja vu...

The reality is neither awake nor asleep, dreaming nor not dreaming, but is afterall 'indescribable'.

As a finger pointing, the best words to describe the 'seeing through appearances' are 'leo's': 'Awakening to the Dream'... not Awakening from the Dream.

It just means 'seeing it for what it is' (like waking in a lucid dream and realising it is a dream), not just 'intellectually', 'but 'experientially'.

There is still 'experience', but 'that which is experiencing' cannot locate, describe, or separate 'itself' from the 'whole experience'. One can no longer say 'I', as opposed to 'all' or 'other' in any meaningful sense.

The apparent world is still seen from the perspective of michael and the life of michael is still lived as a 'normal bloke'. Only if there is an attempt to locate this 'michael' is it apparent that there is no 'me' here separate from 'all'.

No one can experience the 'inexperienceable'. It is impossible to experience 'nothing as nothing'... not as 'cold' or 'unfeeling' or 'lonely' or any other 'negative' (or positive) feeling or idea. All these are 'experiences' and though not separate from that which experiences, they are not it.

It is said that One's true nature is revealed in 'Deep Sleep' when there are no colours, sounds, tastes, smells, feelings or ideas in awareness. This state cannot be remembered. For 'in' it, there is nothing to be remembered... perhaps 'Bliss' is the word that best points to it. Though this would seem to imply that there is a difference between one 'state' and 'another'... when the reality is unchanging. That which does not change cannot have 'two states'.

Who hates/fears 'deep sleep'?

The fear of 'the nothing' is simply the sensation of fear combined with an idea of 'nothing' being 'cold', 'lonely', 'unfeeling'...

Reality is nothing like the idea. Nothing to fear at all.

This 'nothing' is 'all'... eternally.

It is Life itself... the Living One.

The creature cries: praise be to God in the Highest!

Well, now that's explained, I'm going to have a cup of tea

Love


Dear Michael

You explain ‘THIS’ so beautifully that even a dummy could get it….the words themselves are like poetry in motion….creating a sense of depth, texture, passion & emotion….creating a sense of ‘A’ reality. I can almost taste what you’re expressing….magnificently written…magnificently expressed!

Thank you for this journey into a world…a reality…as seen…as experienced…as perceived by this Michael…It is not however this Michael perceiving anything…It is not this Michael expressing anything….It is not this Michael experiencing anything. Yes!....There is no Michael that does or that can choose to do any of these things.

And yet there appears to be this Michael…..this Michael knows that if searched for he can not be found….and yet again it is not this Michael that knows……but there is this reality…as perceived…as experienced….as expressed….by that which appears & is appearing as Michael.

There is no Michael that can determine if a material world is real or a dream….there is no Michael that can determine if there are eyes to see that are inseperatable from seeing. No-thing is self evident….no one for it to be self evident to.

Yet again….there is ‘A’ reality quite different….as experienced….as perceived…… just as real….by a Islamist terrorist, or a Christian Fundamentalist.

It matters not to state a reality as not just 'intellectually', 'but 'experientially'.

Explain the world or reality according to Michael & the Islamist terrorist or Christian fundamentalist will not get it….Explain the world or reality according to the Islamist terrorist or the Christian Fundamentalist….and Michael will not get it!

These seemingly different & contradictory points of views are all not just intellectually but experientially….All come from the same source…what is reality then….what is being perceived….. impossible to know or tell…..this is illusion.

These realities….all seemingly just as real….just as passionate….of what is basically one thing…one experience….as perceived by one entity….with a different sense of coloring, depth, texture, passion & emotion….THIS DIFFERENCE……is the illusion….All else is real because it’s foundation is that which is real…..Consciousness. Call me a materialist if you will!

A very close friend of mine recently passed away….yet I & this material world lives on….when it is my turn to dissolve….this material world will still be….as experienced from the perception of what appears as those that are left….This material world comes from consciousness…is consciousness…like me…as is you….as are those that are left…..indestructible…forever immortal…..ONE….Consciousness…me…you…this…that…only when the appearance of this I dissolve can I be known as ONE having the experiences of what is currently appearing as the all…only then experientially….will this be the reality.

This is my humble opinion….if there was a me to have one….yet here I sit not just intellectually but experientially. Shocked

I hope you enjoyed your tea…not just intellectually but experientially. Confused

By the way I love this expression ….not just intellectually but experientially….that’s deep….It sounds so cool! Cool

MICHAEL...YOU DA MAN! Laughing

Peace!
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awakening
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cimages wrote:


Oh well.....You know what I mean....proper ND terminology....know what mean!....but that really doesn't sound right.

Peace!


Proper terminology or not... Who cares? There are no words to capture it. It's all playful pointing... and 'your' pointing is clear cimages; as clear as the screen underneath these words.
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi cimages, beautifully written yourself... Very Happy

cimages wrote:
only when the appearance of this I dissolve can I be known as ONE having the experiences of what is currently appearing as the all…only then experientially….will this be the reality.


There is a saying: "die before you die in order that you may really live".

I suspect that Leo is already completely dead Shocked , and michael is mostly dead Embarassed Wink ... it seems he keeps poking his head up, but as soon as I catch a glimpse of him he dissolves again. Cool

So why would no one write to no one?

And anyway, in our written exchanges, what meaning is there?

It is the meaning the reader reads into it.

And why do this?

As leo says this forum is for...

Well, foruming of course Very Happy

Love
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:

So why would no one write to no one?


Ahhhhhhhh YES!.....There is a certain insanity to it all! Shocked

But then again there would be no dance......and there is after all only the dance.

SO IT'S BEEN NICE DANCING WITH YOU & LEO....OR SHOULD I SAY........ WITH MYSELF........OR SHOULD IT BE SAID.......... IT'S NICE DANCING! Laughing

OH WELL........THE DANCE CONTINUES! Confused

Peace!
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