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The absence of presence and the presence of absence.
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awakening
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:03 pm    Post subject: The absence of presence and the presence of absence. Reply with quote

As you can see the forum is finally back.
The long absence was not all the hacker’s doing. There was a backup but, as it turned out, the file was damaged. All the data were mixed up as if they had been fed trough a shredder.

Leela, my daughter, managed to extract the subscribers from this mess, so here we are with a fresh start.
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priestess



Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Sonoma, California

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: ATTD Forum Reply with quote

Welcome back.
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seeingitself



Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:56 pm    Post subject: The absence of the absence of absence & presence Reply with quote

The absence of the absence of absence & presence...The subject stating 'the absence of absence & presence' must also be negated (the subject is also only conceptual, an appearance & without independent existence). With no differentiator there is no thing differentiated. With the absence of a conceptualiser there is no thing conceptualised.
'The bodhisattva who holds onto the idea of a self, a person, a living being, a life span, is not an authentic bodhisattva' - Diamond Sutra
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maple3



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 1065
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wow, the long awaited reunion. Yay! Very Happy

But where are all the old posts? Confused
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awakening
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maple3 wrote:
Oh wow, the long awaited reunion. Yay! Very Happy

But where are all the old posts? Confused


As I said above Maple, they went through a virtual shredder and are now cosmic confetti.

The imagined past cannot be retrieved, so here we are –where else- with a fresh start.
Idea
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Jibreel



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am Happy

That the forum is back.
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saterra
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: The absense of presence Reply with quote

The emptiness of fullness, and the fullness of emptiness, the absence of presence, and the presence of absence: both explain, without explaining, the existence of non existence and the non existence of existence.
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maple3



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 1065
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

awakening wrote:
As I said above Maple, they went through a virtual shredder and are now cosmic confetti.

The imagined past cannot be retrieved, so here we are –where else- with a fresh start.
Idea

Okay, as usual, I'm a little slow. Rolling Eyes
And I guess I was having some kinda fantasy/delusion.

Yes, "fresh" is good too. Very Happy
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awakening
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Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maple3 wrote:

Okay, as usual, I'm a little slow.


Never considered you to be slow Maple.
Different things at different times, (mostely good things Wink ) but never slow.
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Mu



Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: The absence of the absence of absence & presence Reply with quote

seeingitself wrote:
The absence of the absence of absence & presence...The subject stating 'the absence of absence & presence' must also be negated (the subject is also only conceptual, an appearance & without independent existence). With no differentiator there is no thing differentiated. With the absence of a conceptualiser there is no thing conceptualised.


Hey seeingitself

I don't want to destroy discussion but isn't this another set of concepts too - just as what I'm writing here is? We can't really get away from them can we? Especially on a discussion forum. With verbal and written interaction within this context, the best we can 'hope' for is to use concepts to point to that which they arise in and from.

Quote:
'The bodhisattva who holds onto the idea of a self, a person, a living being, a life span, is not an authentic bodhisattva' - Diamond Sutra


Does that mean that to be 'authentic bodhisattva' is better than not being one? Very Happy
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one2



Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 5
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:52 am    Post subject: Thanks! Reply with quote

Thank you Leo and Leela for your generous effort to keep this forum up and running for the benefit of readers and contributors around the world.

I appreciated Mu's comment at this time about the words we use, at best, being pointers to That, however good or reasonable they sound.
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Evy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 12:55 am    Post subject: Being alone in community Reply with quote

Hello old friends! It was good to get your email. Thank you, Leela! Very Happy
(Leo).
It is always good to chat with all of you. Somehow, 'the aloneness' arising here, in this one, enjoys 'community'...still... Perhaps, "always" Question

Love
Eve
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed in discussion all one can do is indicate as all attempts to define or describe the indescribable only objectify, conceptualise. That is why the sages often said very little, knowing that words are more often a stumblingblock than a help. But as this is a discussion group & we must verbalise we can do no better than to indicate.
An authentic bodhisattva is one who is not posing as such but has really understood & awakened. But to call him/her a bodhisattva or to call him/her awakened or to even imply the existence of him/her is all conceptualising isn't it? Yet, if we wish to talk we have to verbalise.....
Best to say nothing....? Well, not in a discussion group.
The sages did indicate - either via words, or actions, a slap or a sound, or even silence. Whether one understands the indication is neither here nor there, if they are ripe for understanding they will. Again, all this too is conceptualising....Who is conceptualising? 'Let me remind you that the perceived cannot perceive' - Huang Po
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qualitydag



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Berkeley California

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:58 am    Post subject: words words words Reply with quote

Remember, you have just said something that has been repeated over and over and over, but yet, it is more important to validate that talking MUST happen because this is a group of folks speaking rather than being.
Not matter what reply is made to this and other postings, the bottom line is that folks are here now not being present, spending time allowing the mind to chatter. We are being present and not even able to hit the keys of a computer keyboard or, we are, forgive me.....masterbating with thoughts.

Ok, why not admit that it's good to support each other as the mind forks out pain in the form of illusion? Would it not be more "honest" to say "we've got your back, keep on brother?" rather than say who is the sufferer or "that is duality!" or other jargon? Words can be used as another way for folks to "be proud of word usage or show another person how much one knows, which is of course usually not admitted to by the one that is trying to "pump" the ego at another's expense.

Be kind folks, just let each other know there is support and stop going on with "the correct way" to speak, that's all masturbation. Compassion first. Who really cares about being told that there is a right way to say the stuff. Compassion, be less "false" about it all. Compassion. Non-duality...please, lets see some of the folks that talk about non-duality really show care in works. Hang out with someone that is sick or dying or really messed up emotionally. If we really know about non-duality, why not help those who need some care and kindness and do it in silence?
Now that's putting your "money where your mouth is"
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Bix12



Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 6:11 am    Post subject: Super! Reply with quote

Well, good show, Leo! Kudos to your daughter, as well....I'll be seeing you all soon...peace.
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