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Contradictions of I AM.?

 
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:20 pm    Post subject: Contradictions of I AM.? Reply with quote

If I AM all that I AM claims to be, then why do I AM, need to claim to be anything.

Writing & reading will still happen....so will dancing. Shocked

AND....BOY DO I LIKE TO DANCE! Laughing

The reason I like to dance
is that while dancing it is seen
that it is not I that am dancing
but the dancing is me.

Peace!....This expression means...nothing...because in the true state it is non existent, so is it's polar opposite....it is a metaphor of what that true state is...not peace or war...not love or hate...no need for metaphors...still sounds like...Peace! to this me which is something that I experience only while writing poetry.

But then again, what do i know....who am i...i am.....no one

My appologies if anyone is offended, really this is not my intent. Embarassed

Because, I've never written poetry prior to the self discovery of which this forum has provided so... 'I AM'...appreciative.

A Sparrow died today Crying or Very sad

Peace!
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akash



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 27
Location: gent, belgium

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Contradictions of I AM.? Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
If I AM all that I AM claims to be, then why do I AM, need to claim to be anything.

Why does anything (seem) to happen at all? Is need the basis for all happenings? Is there a need for the moon to shine? Yet it shines!

So can't claiming happen without there being a need for it?
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ANNA



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 4093

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Contradictions of I AM.? Reply with quote

cimages wrote:


AND....BOY DO I LIKE TO DANCE! Laughing

The reason I like to dance
is that while dancing it is seen
that it is not I that am dancing
but the dancing is me.


Peace!



cimages, I AM appreciate your poetry....in Self Discovery....


here is a little perfume of dancing for you.... from T.J.Eliot




"At the still point of the turning world.

Neither flesh nor fleshless;

Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,

But neither arrest nor movement.

And do not call it fixity,

Where past and future are gathered.

Neither movement from nor towards,

Neither ascent nor decline.

Except for the point, the still point,

There would be no dance, and there is only the dance."



In peace,

Anna
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Contradictions of I AM.? Reply with quote

akash wrote:
cimages wrote:
If I AM all that I AM claims to be, then why do I AM, need to claim to be anything.

Why does anything (seem) to happen at all? Is need the basis for all happenings? Is there a need for the moon to shine? Yet it shines!

So can't claiming happen without there being a need for it?


Your response to your response

akash wrote:
In relinquishing all ideas about being or not being anything, in anything or as anything, in that reality is found as it is.


My sentiments exactly!

Except!...(if not for an except there would be no dance)....reality as determined by whom?

Since there is no one to determine a reality there can not be anything called reality...not even as a concept.

The term reality does not point to anything other than illusion because this is the only thing this expression can possibly be. Including the expression 'I'.

Peace!
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akash



Joined: 04 Aug 2004
Posts: 27
Location: gent, belgium

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Contradictions of I AM.? Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
akash wrote:
cimages wrote:
If I AM all that I AM claims to be, then why do I AM, need to claim to be anything.

Why does anything (seem) to happen at all? Is need the basis for all happenings? Is there a need for the moon to shine? Yet it shines!

So can't claiming happen without there being a need for it?


Your response to your response

akash wrote:
In relinquishing all ideas about being or not being anything, in anything or as anything, in that reality is found as it is.


My sentiments exactly!

Except!...(if not for an except there would be no dance)....reality as determined by whom?

Since there is no one to determine a reality there can not be anything called reality...not even as a concept.

The term reality does not point to anything other then illusion because this is the only thing this expression can possibly be. Including the expression 'I'.

Peace!


Great dance!

determined reality is indeed an illusion! just as a determined THIS is! All determination is an illusion because it is nothing but putting concepts on top of what is. A determination would also imply taking a stand somewhere and as there is nowhere or no-one to take a stand anywhere, all determinations are equally as false as the stand taken or the one taking the stand. So indeed a determined reality is an illusion, not necessarily because reality/being (not the concept, but that to which it points) is an illusion but because it supposed to be determined! Is reality/that which is/being without determination an illusion? Can there even be an answer to this, as any answer would be taken a stand and thus be an illusion. Words like expression and illusion also imply a stand taken and thus are illusion in themselves. The illusion of illusion! So then the question becomes can an illusion called illusion do anything and thus prove or disprove anything (no-thing, reality, being) as being real or unreal?
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Contradictions of I AM.? Reply with quote

akash wrote:
cimages wrote:
akash wrote:
cimages wrote:
If I AM all that I AM claims to be, then why do I AM, need to claim to be anything.

Why does anything (seem) to happen at all? Is need the basis for all happenings? Is there a need for the moon to shine? Yet it shines!

So can't claiming happen without there being a need for it?


Your response to your response

akash wrote:
In relinquishing all ideas about being or not being anything, in anything or as anything, in that reality is found as it is.


My sentiments exactly!

Except!...(if not for an except there would be no dance)....reality as determined by whom?

Since there is no one to determine a reality there can not be anything called reality...not even as a concept.

The term reality does not point to anything other then illusion because this is the only thing this expression can possibly be. Including the expression 'I'.

Peace!


Great dance!

determined reality is indeed an illusion! just as a determined THIS is! All determination is an illusion because it is nothing but putting concepts on top of what is. A determination would also imply taking a stand somewhere and as there is nowhere or no-one to take a stand anywhere, all determinations are equally as false as the stand taken or the one taking the stand. So indeed a determined reality is an illusion, not necessarily because reality/being (not the concept, but that to which it points) is an illusion but because it supposed to be determined! Is reality/that which is/being without determination an illusion? Can there even be an answer to this, as any answer would be taken a stand and thus be an illusion. Words like expression and illusion also imply a stand taken and thus are illusion in themselves. The illusion of illusion! So then the question becomes can an illusion called illusion do anything and thus prove or disprove anything (no-thing, reality, being) as being real or unreal?


Ahhhhhhh Yes......we speak the same but in different languages....when there is understanding what else need be expressed....BUT WE CAN STILL DANCE!

Peace!
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Contradictions of I AM.? Reply with quote

akash wrote:
All determination is an illusion because it is nothing but putting concepts on top of what is. A determination would also imply taking a stand somewhere and as there is nowhere or no-one to take a stand anywhere, all determinations are equally as false as the stand taken or the one taking the stand. So indeed a determined reality is an illusion, not necessarily because reality/being (not the concept, but that to which it points) is an illusion but because it supposed to be determined! Is reality/that which is/being without determination an illusion? Can there even be an answer to this, as any answer would be taken a stand and thus be an illusion. Words like expression and illusion also imply a stand taken and thus are illusion in themselves. The illusion of illusion! So then the question becomes can an illusion called illusion do anything and thus prove or disprove anything (no-thing, reality, being) as being real or unreal?


Oh what a tangled web I weave when first I practice to deceive.

No one is never deceived.

What is known is known...

Who knows it...

No one.

More meaningless words.

If they were meaningful, the meaning would simply be the meaning.

So on with the dance...

Love
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From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Re: Contradictions of I AM.? Reply with quote

ANNA wrote:

cimages, I AM appreciate your poetry....in Self Discovery....

here is a little perfume of dancing for you.... from T.J.Eliot

"At the still point of the turning world.

Neither flesh nor fleshless;

Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,

But neither arrest nor movement.

And do not call it fixity,

Where past and future are gathered.

Neither movement from nor towards,

Neither ascent nor decline.

Except for the point, the still point,

There would be no dance, and there is only the dance."


In peace,

Anna


Thank you Anna...for this most refreshing moment...this most refreshing still point.

peace
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