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ThIS wAs nOT wHaT iT apPeARed tO bE.
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:48 am    Post subject: ThIS wAs nOT wHaT iT apPeARed tO bE. Reply with quote

What was previously posted here was an illusion.

The name was changed to protect the innocent.


Peace! Cool ....Just be Cool!


Last edited by cimages on Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:49 pm; edited 2 times in total
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: A Crisis in Perception! Please Advise! Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
I am now experiencing thoughts, as if they are a distinct & different entity from me.

I'm trying to understand what is occuring. Anyone else having this or have had this experience?

And no Non Duality 101 please. There is Understanding of this.

These thoughts are not expressing things that I would deemed to be out of the ordinary for this me experience. In other words, I'm not hearing voices telling me to destroy the world or anything horrible like that.

These thoughts appear to be 'my' normal way of thinking. It just appears that there is this big seperation between what is experienced as thoughts, & what is experienced as me? ....I'm not sure as to what is occuring.

There actually appear to be 3....The seperation between this me....& these thoughts are the greatest.

But there appears to be something seeing, experiencing, observing, both this me & the thoughts that are coming to this me.

Please advise anyone! There seems to be a feeling of apprehension here!

Peace! :? :shock: :oops: :x :roll: :o :(




Did you expect this to be easy?


toombaru
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: A Crisis in Perception! Please Advise! Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
I am now experiencing thoughts, as if they are a distinct & different entity from me.

I'm trying to understand what is occuring. Anyone else having this or have had this experience?

And no Non Duality 101 please. There is Understanding of this.

These thoughts are not expressing things that I would deemed to be out of the ordinary for this me experience. In other words, I'm not hearing voices telling me to destroy the world or anything horrible like that.

These thoughts appear to be 'my' normal way of thinking. It just appears that there is this big seperation between what is experienced as thoughts, & what is experienced as me? ....I'm not sure as to what is occuring.

There actually appear to be 3....The seperation between this me....& these thoughts are the greatest.

But there appears to be something seeing, experiencing, observing, both this me & the thoughts that seems to be coming to this me.

Please advise anyone! There seems to be a feeling of apprehension here!

Peace! :? :shock: :oops: :x :roll: :o :(





The ego............can become quite dramatic in its own imagined swan song.

It grasps........gasps.....attempts to cover its head.......can become very agitated.....all in a futile attempt to puff its self up....make its self appear real........



Its just part of the play.......Don't take it so personally.


Either way.........It won't last long.


toombaru
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: A Crisis in Perception! Please Advise! Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
But there appears to be something seeing, experiencing, observing, both this me & the thoughts that seems to be coming to this me.

Please advise anyone! There seems to be a feeling of apprehension here!

Peace! Confused Shocked Embarassed Mad Rolling Eyes Surprised Sad


What is this 'me' that is seen? Can it be described?

Does it really appear that some 'thing' is seeing, or is there just seeing, (and feeling and hearing and tasting and smelling and knowing)?

Experiencing thoughts as thoughts and not 'my thoughts', no longer 'bound up in the stories they tell'... just observing them... how ridiculous they are, how funny it is! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Love
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sara



Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 903
Location: below sea level

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: A Crisis in Perception! Please Advise! Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
I am now experiencing thoughts, as if they are a distinct & different entity from me.

I'm trying to understand what is occuring. Anyone else having this or have had this experience?

And no Non Duality 101 please. There is Understanding of this.

But there appears to be something seeing, experiencing, observing, both this me & the thoughts that seems to be coming to this me.

Please advise anyone! There seems to be a feeling of apprehension here!

Peace!


Dear Cimages,

Please tell us more about what preceded this and how you feel now.

'Witnessing' was once experienced here for about three weeks, day and night! Initially it felt very strange and disorienting.

Might this be what's happening?
Question

Lots of love and hugs! Very Happy
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freefall



Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 39
Location: near chicago

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoughts just come out of nowhere; they always have, for "you", for "me", for everybody. On the one hand this is simple, "Advaita 101", on the other hand it's not so simple or trivial when it is happening to "me". If I am not my precious thoughts, then what am I really?

More and more I am discovering that the problem is me; but since there is no me there is no problem, or at least nobody to "have" a problem. There are lots of problems, sure, and lots of questions (same idea). "How do they become 'mine'?" is the next question.

But such thoughts/pointers often turn into pronoun shuffling and word games. Such word shuffling is what I understand by "Advaita 101".

The answer really is silence. Or to paraphrase another recent post, "That's no answer, that's my wife". Sometimes absurdity is the only thing that makes sense.
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

‘I’ am of the philosophy that it is a ‘thought’ that define a thing. Nothing is prior to thought other than consciousness. There is nothing that exists that ‘thought’ doesn’t define or make materialize including the senses. All ‘thoughts’ come from the same singular source of conscious awareness. Insignificant.

All appearances are in & is consciousness including ‘thoughts’. Consciousness is the only reality, there is no you, me or things out there, just........‘This’….Consciousness. Insignificant.

'I’ appear as a focal point of consciousness, in consciousness, & no different from any other thought. This ‘I’ experience this reality (of consciousness) as real. If I am cut I feel pain, not as an illusion, but as pain. I experience myself, not as an illusion, but as a reality.......so does consciousness. Insignificant.

Thoughts & ideas appear or is transmitted to this focal point of conscious that is referred to as ‘I’ & also ‘me’. Thoughts that appear to this focal point, holds this to be true & self evident but only to this focal point called ‘me’. This is the reality of……….BEING…….‘me’. Insignificant.

With this having been expressed, all experiences in the form of thoughts or ideas of an appearance of a 3rd presence, including thoughts, being a separate entity from this me are INSIGNIFICANT.

An insignificant thought (As all are) that materialize & then just as suddenly dissipates leaving not a trace.

As insignificant as…….BEING………the illusion of this ’me’.

Nothing further needs to be expressed.

Peace! Cool ....Just be Cool!
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
'I’ am of the philosophy that it is a ‘thought’ that defines a thing


So long as it remains a 'philosophy', this is just a thought... thoughts defining thoughts defining things Very Happy

cimages wrote:
'I’ appear as a focal point of consciousness, in consciousness...


What is a 'focal point'?

The following quotes seem to reflect a belief that it is a 'bit' of consciousness that has its own unique experiences that are also experienced by 'Consciousness' ('little c' and 'Big C') Very Happy

cimages wrote:
Thoughts & ideas... (are) transmitted to this focal point of consciousness

Thoughts that appear to this focal point...

If I (the focal point) am cut I (the focal point) feel pain, not as an illusion, but as pain. I (the focal point) experience myself, not as an illusion, but as a reality.......so does consciousness.


The image conjured is like a ball (Consciousness) with billions of 'dots' on the surface. Each dot representing a ‘bit of consciousness’ (a focal point), with different 'thoughts and sensations' being sent from deep inside the ball to each dot.

The dots are part of the ball but 'they' experience only 'their bit of the illusion', while ‘Consciousness’ experiences them all, all at once. As new ‘people’ are born, new dots appear, and as they die, the dots merge into the surface.

This is only an image.

The reality is one, without differentiation.

There are no separate 'bits of consciousness' experiencing 'cimages thoughts and feelings' with other 'bits' experiencing 'michael thoughts and feelings' or 'leo thoughts and feelings' while ‘Big C’ experiences everything all at once.

This image reinforces the idea that ‘little c’ will one day disappear and that ‘it/or Consciousness’ will then know what it is to be ‘Big C’ again… yay!

There is no 'little c' and Big C'... only Consciousness.

As one experiences the thoughts and feelings and sees the sights and hears the sounds that make up the apparent world seen from the perspective of 'cimages'... it is the only experience. There are no other 'bits' of consciousness having 'simultaneous' experiences of some other apparent life.

Nor is there any other ‘special experience/knowledge/mystical state of being’ being had by Big C ('at the same time’), which ‘little c’ is missing out on.

There is only this experience here now as these words are read.

From the perspective of the person you seem to be, it appears that ‘you woke this morning’ and that life for this person has been a ‘continuous stream of being’, with ‘yesterday’s experiences' having been experienced ’24 hours ago’.

Yet reality is timeless. Between ‘yesterday’ and ‘today’ there is an infinity of identical moments in which countless ‘lifetimes’ (people and other creatures) may be experienced. For, as this moment is experienced, it brings with it the memories of ‘prior’ moments (that relates to the ‘life history’ of the person you seem to be).

This instant one seems to be cimages, and this instant one seems to be michael, and this instant cimages again.

Between these instants there is no time. (And there really are no ‘moments’). All that appears to change are sensations, associated with certain ideas (divine ideas, not human ideas Confused Shocked Cool Very Happy ) that give the moment its meaning. As these sensations appear and disappear, they seem to define a moment. Yet before, during and after their arising, there is no change.

As a way of pointing to this timeless reality, imagine that between ‘one instant of seeming to be cimages’ and another ‘instant of seeming to be cimages’ is a billion years. From the perspective of cimages (or any other perspective), the ‘gap’ would not be apparent, for each instant brings with it memory of ‘the past’.

Between the experience of ‘michael writing this post’ and ‘cimages reading’, countless lifetimes are experienced, yet it appears that we are corresponding in a space of 24 hours.

There are no 'brothers' or 'sisters' 'out there' or 'in here' that share (in) 'Consciousness'.

One is completely, utterly, irrevocably, eternally alone.

Nothing to lose, nothing to gain.

Nothing changing… for everything that can ever be is here now: an eternal playground full of friends and enemies, lovers, and family, great symphonies and terrible diseases, and infinitely and... In this playground, hurt appears (feeling of pain) and ‘in the morning/next moment’ it is all better again. How wonderful.

Love
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Last edited by michael on Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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cimages



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautifully written......beautifully expressed. Very Happy

Expressed by no one.....Written by no one.......read by no one. Shocked

And ye,t there is the sensation of a 'me' reading it. (wonder why 'I' wasn't made aware of it while it was being written, or better yet, while it was being formulated in the focal point of consciousness called 'you', better known as Michael.) Embarassed

As this 'me' reads, thoughts from which this me know not where seem to interpret, define, what is being read. Interprets, defines, that which is doing the reading. Interprets, defines, formulates, a response from that which it defines as......me. Confused

There is no one making the statement that it is my philosophy but yet that statement is made. Question

That statement before being expressed was formulated as a thought. Idea

A thought from where? Consciousness. Wink

What is a thought? Consiousness. Laughing

Where did it seem to appear? A fixed focal point of Consciousness called me or perhaps little c. (I do like the term little c much better then me, wonder why 'I' did not think of it). Or better yet why big C did not think of it.......for little c..........formally known as..........me! Surprised

And so the story goes! Laughing

Peace! Cool .......Just be Cool! signed little "c"
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cimages wrote:
...wonder why 'I' wasn't made aware of it while it was being... formulated in the focal point of consciousness called 'Michael'


Is it such a mystery that, as one experiences the life of cimages, there is no awareness of the life of michael?

When reading one book, the words of all other books do not appear. Imagine the chaos if it were otherwise Shocked

In reading one book, there is no experience of all other books. In the moment of reading, it is as if all other books do not and have never existed.

Yet other stories can be instantly recalled. This 'recall' is experienced as images and subtle sounds that re-create aspects of the story. And with 'photgraphic memory', one even sees the passages as they appear on the page, re-creating the experience of reading the story.

So where does meaning come from and go to when it is not made apparent?

The answer is that it does not come and go. It is ever known in the knowing.

In relation to 'reading', all that 'comes and goes' are the sensations that give meaning its momentary (apparent) form: colours (print), sounds (spoken) and feelings (braille).

By reference only to the senses does it appear that "I do not know all", that "Meaning comes and goes", that "Things are remembered and forgotten".

Take the word 'elephant'.

Until the marks were just now seen, and the meaning 'elephant' associated with them, where was the knowing of 'elephant'?

And now (as the meaning is no longer given apparent form as a word) where is the meaning?

Where is the meaning when read from the perspective of a Chinese person? In this case, the marks 'elephant' may mean only 'writing'.

The meaning is never lost, never 'forgotten'. That which is 'elephant' is ever 'elephant'.

What is true of the 'word', is true of the 'thing'... all 'things'. All possibilities (meaning) are ever here: giving meaning to sensations as they arise... together creating this apparent play of life.

Oh what a tangled web we weave,
when first we practice to deceive Very Happy

Love
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awakening
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually there is no little c; only C appearing as little c. And as little c, C produces some great postings and poems. All there is is C.

Michael, the 'reading one book at the time' metaphor is wonderful, simple and very clear. The reading is one, the books appear as focal points within the reading.

As long as the body mind appears there will be a unique experience of the universe from that focal point. In the mystical or peak experience this can be undone, but it is rather hard to drive a car or do the shopping from that no-perspective perspective.

Imagine an electric toy. Let’s make it a puppet that speaks. Whenever it is activated it says “How come if electricity is my true nature, that I do not experience what it is like to be a car stereo or a fruit mixer?”

A single 'me' is not the experiencer of all; it is an experienced object. C is the One experiencer of all 'me's.

And like it is said in the other posting signed as c (but produced by C), this are all concepts.
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz Very Happy

In the ocean of Self there is only sea.
In this sea C sees c, c sees C not, for c's not
Though c seems to C to be.
How strange:
What's not C: c, is not separate from C
c seems to be, but is not.
C's seen not, yet is not not.
That which sees this not, seems to be c, but is not
Seeming to be c, C sees it not
Seeming to be c not, C sees it.
See C sees c not seeing C

This is called 'c'ing' your self, also called tying your self in 'nots' Shocked Cool Confused Very Happy Twisted Evil

Love
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Last edited by michael on Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:43 am; edited 3 times in total
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michael



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo, it seems your 'focal points' and my 'perspectives' are the same.

Ahhh clear communication... wonderful Very Happy

Love
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michael



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:18 am    Post subject: Meaning and Sensation Reply with quote


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fox



Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 821
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael...you said:

"...This instant one seems to be cimages, and this instant one seems to be michael, and this instant cimages again..."

But this is exactly what I don't understand.

because: There is most of the time only the damn fox

I, as the eternal awareness, have never experienced, not in the slightest, the perspective cimages, or michael, or any other perspectives.

Yes, with the help of the holy sacrament, the mushroom, there were strange experiences of 'other perspectives', but you know...not really the ones, that 'would make sense'


I, as the ONE CONSCIOUSNESS, ALL ALONE, have only ever the one perspective.

As if it was an error in the matrix...

What is this error?

(don't say, it's fox. I see that fox is just an image, a perspective. But it seems to be THE ONLY ONE!)

Surprised
Shocked
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