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Rubbing the image off the mirror
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: Rubbing the image off the mirror Reply with quote

There is no me.
What was taken for 'me' was in fact an accumulation
of thoughts, experiences, influences etc.
This may be called egoic consciousness or persona.

ok so far.

Now the task is to see through this persona/ego.
Yes?

So the mind which created the ego/persona in the
first place is now to 'see through' itself.

Something's wrong here ... and its bugging this awareness.

It can't be THAT which is appearing as 'me' as THAT
already knows itself.
Who or what is left to do the work of waking up?
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Rubbing the image off the mirror Reply with quote

makara wrote:
There is no me.
What was taken for 'me' was in fact an accumulation
of thoughts, experiences, influences etc.
This may be called egoic consciousness or persona.

ok so far.

Now the task is to see through this persona/ego.
Yes?

So the mind which created the ego/persona in the
first place is now to 'see through' itself.

Something's wrong here ... and its bugging this awareness.

It can't be THAT which is appearing as 'me' as THAT
already knows itself.
Who or what is left to do the work of waking up?


that's the joke... no one

the 'role' appears to be 'real'... simply because I know the meaning of every 'thought' and 'emotion' and 'feeling' as it arises... without error...

I 'feel confused'... as 'confusion arises'... thus it appears: "I am confused"

but I am never confused... smile

I never confuse the 'sense of confusion' with some other 'emotion' or 'thought'...

Love
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
makara: It can't be THAT which is appearing as 'me' as THAT
already knows itself


THAT creates this world to experience ignorance.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Rubbing the image off the mirror Reply with quote

makara wrote:
There is no me.
What was taken for 'me' was in fact an accumulation
of thoughts, experiences, influences etc.
This may be called egoic consciousness or persona.

ok so far.

Now the task is to see through this persona/ego.
Yes?





No.
That which has no existential reality cannot see through itself.
A shadow will not magically transform itself into the light.
It would be akin to one of the people in your dreams at night trying to get a glimpse of your face.








So the mind which created the ego/persona in the
first place is now to 'see through' itself.

Something's wrong here ... and its bugging this awareness.

It can't be THAT which is appearing as 'me' as THAT
already knows itself.
Who or what is left to do the work of waking up?





There is no waking up for the sense of self.
There can occur an understanding in which its apparent reality is apperceived.
When and if that occurs.....it will continue to do what it does......but awareness is no longer totally identified with the sense of self and becomes more or less diffused within the perceptual arena.




This is the problem with having a personal god that the ego can always fall back on.
All of its gods.....all of its accumulated spiritual knowledge..... only reinforce its pseudo-reality.

It uses God to protect the back door.


Last edited by toombaru on Thu May 20, 2010 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aquarius



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 2408
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Rubbing the image off the mirror Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:





There is no waking up for the sense of self.
There can occur an understanding in which its apparent reality is apperceived.
When and if that occurs.....it will continue to do what it does......but awareness is no longer totally identified with the sense of self and becomes more or less diffused within the perceptual arena.




This is the problem with having a personal god that the ego can always fall back on.
All of its gods.....all of its accumulated spiritual knowledge..... only reinforce its pseudo-reality.

It uses God to protect the back door.


Very well said.
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
THAT creates this world to experience ignorance.

This sounds like the worst child abuse.
It sounds preposterous, monstrous.
Here, dilaram let me cut out yr tongue so
you can experience silence.

Quote:
That which has no existential reality cannot see through itself.

Exactly T - that's what the O.P is all about.

BTW it was not intended to mean:
Quote:
There is no waking up for the sense of self.

Rather ... waking up to the sense of false self.
But therein lies the problem ... it appears there is nothing to wake up
so really I wonder what the hell this entire forum is about.
What reason to live for those who are in deprivation?

It's as if the forest is cut down, there are no more boars or deer left yet everyone want to go hunting...
and continually talks about the details of hunting.


_________
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
THAT creates this world to experience ignorance.

This sounds like the worst child abuse.
It sounds preposterous, monstrous.
Here, dilaram let me cut out yr tongue so
you can experience silence.

Quote:
That which has no existential reality cannot see through itself.

Exactly T - that's what the O.P is all about.

BTW it was not intended to mean:
Quote:
There is no waking up for the sense of self.

Rather ... waking up to the sense of false self.
But therein lies the problem ... it appears there is nothing to wake up
so really I wonder what the hell this entire forum is about.
What reason to live for those who are in deprivation?

It's as if the forest is cut down, there are no more boars or deer left yet everyone want to go hunting...
and continually talks about the details of hunting.


_________


it clearly appears like that from the perspective of 'makara'...

from the perspective of 'michael'... it is a land of flowing honey...

the same that experiences the apparent despair... experiences the apparent abundance...

not different... the same...

Love
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Phoenix



Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 506

PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continue to polish the mirror.
You are, "The Buddha in the Mirror."
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I bow to the lord who abides within.
The Resurrection Body, as it were.
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You are, "The Buddha in the Mirror."

Nice thought Phoenix .. .but boy he needs a shave!

M wrote:
Quote:
from the perspective of 'michael'... it is a land of flowing honey...

Clearly this inequality happens ... world is full of it.
One might even hypothesise that a lack of balance
is behind most of the problems in the world.
What this centre of awareness wants to know is
how to get some of the good stuff?
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Phoenix



Joined: 14 May 2010
Posts: 506

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
You are, "The Buddha in the Mirror."

Nice thought Phoenix .. .but boy he needs a shave!

M wrote:
Quote:
from the perspective of 'michael'... it is a land of flowing honey...

Clearly this inequality happens ... world is full of it.
One might even hypothesise that a lack of balance
is behind most of the problems in the world.
What this centre of awareness wants to know is
how to get some of the good stuff?


The nectar/ambrosia of the Gods is found in the meditative/alchemical/fertile state, Where relative consciousness Recognises, Honors and Greets an Absolute Consciousness.

Justice without equity and impartiality,
is injustice.

Condemnation prior to investigation is the height of ignorance.

"Probolems cannot be solved by the same consciousness that created them" ~Albert Einstein...suggest there is a turning point, metanoia-greek, if one chooses to go there.
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Om Namah Shivaya. . .
I bow to the lord who abides within.
The Resurrection Body, as it were.
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michael



Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Posts: 3816
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
You are, "The Buddha in the Mirror."

Nice thought Phoenix .. .but boy he needs a shave!

M wrote:
Quote:
from the perspective of 'michael'... it is a land of flowing honey...

Clearly this inequality happens ... world is full of it.
One might even hypothesise that a lack of balance
is behind most of the problems in the world.
What this centre of awareness wants to know is
how to get some of the good stuff?


any thought that there are separate 'centres of awareness'... is just a thought...

Love
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one of his little essays Adyashanti puts it this way:
Quote:
When the Buddha talked about the realization of no-self, he was talking about the self thatís an image in the mind being completely seen through....
Thatís basically what it means to really wake up: weíre waking up from the character.

Ref: no goadyashanti.org/index.php?file=writings_inner&writingid=36
bty - the image used here about characters in books being
unreal until created in the reader's mind was very helpful
to this one.
______

So back to the O.P. question.
-something is 'seeing through'
-something is 'waking up' from the character
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
In one of his little essays Adyashanti puts it this way:
Quote:
When the Buddha talked about the realization of no-self, he was talking about the self thatís an image in the mind being completely seen through....
Thatís basically what it means to really wake up: weíre waking up from the character.

Ref: no goadyashanti.org/index.php?file=writings_inner&writingid=36
bty - the image used here about characters in books being
unreal until created in the reader's mind was very helpful
to this one.
______

So back to the O.P. question.
-something is 'seeing through'
-something is 'waking up' from the character





Looking through the I-s of self.......it appears like that.
It is a closed loop from which there is no escape.
Once seen for what it isn't....it loses its hold on things.
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Looking through the I-s of self.......it appears like that.

Toombaru does this mean that 'waking up' and 'seeing through'
are only an appearance? There is no waking up , there is no
seeing through?
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
Looking through the I-s of self.......it appears like that.

Toombaru does this mean that 'waking up' and 'seeing through'
are only an appearance? There is no waking up , there is no
seeing through?





There is something......but it cannot be confined within words.
It is not anything that the conceptual mind can grasp.
It is the vertical......in a horizontal world.
No one has even....or can ever....come close to speaking of it.
It is the reason Ramana spoke and it is the reason that Leo is silent.
It comes.....or not......like a kitten........or a tiger.
When you look for it..........it turns in your direction.
Right now........your head is in its mouth.
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