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Sumthin.
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ne0



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who cares? weint_vor_lachen
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Sumthin. Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:






Ahhhh....if I only knew what my motives were.......
then.......perhaps.......I'd be somebody.


Why do you suppose you respond to
these pebbles I skip across this little pond?


What do you want?


What are you trying to say?


To whom are you speaking?


Dunno...

blinzel
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ne0 wrote:
Who cares? weint_vor_lachen



Your new spiritual name shall be:


"Whookers"


Wait a minute.......maybe I'll take that one myself.
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Matt



Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toombaru occupies a critical role at the sharp end here - a siren shaking us awake from the dream of thinking we understand.

For that I am very thankful.
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aquarius



Joined: 16 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt wrote:
Toombaru occupies a critical role at the sharp end here - a siren shaking us awake from the dream of thinking we understand.


I agree

Quote:
For that I am very thankful.


So am I
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt wrote:
Toombaru occupies a critical role at the sharp end here - a siren shaking us awake from the dream of thinking we understand.

For that I am very thankful.




Golly.....and he thought that it was only his own self that he had on the run!

This is a most amazing dream.









Laughing
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awakening
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Sumthin. Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:






The cathedral of self is built from and buttressed by its imaginary gods.
The only light that enters streams in through stained glass.

It is not God or Jesus that I am trying cast from their nest in the dream of personal autonomy.
It is god-thinking that is the culprit and is the focus of intent.

Man and his god
are like peas in a pod.

They are mutually co-dependent.
They need each other to exist.

Whenever one falls.......they both succumb.

The mind of man bolsters its delusional stance and its illusory persona with the idea that there is something bigger and better than itself.

It carries its crosses, crescents, flags and banners into its daily battle to keep its little homestead safe and secure.

It forms alliances with those predisposed to the same delusions.

They prod each other along the dark roads of the unknown.......winding ever downward into the caverns of their own imagination.

It doesn't matter if one's god lives in heaven or in a hole in Iran.

One's god can be a collage of "oneness", "advaita", "big self", "enlightenment", "hope", "love", "country", "charity", "guru", "vegetarianism", ancestors, movie stars or rap artists, web forums, crosses, crescents, flags, symbols, etc, etc, etc.

Ultimately all gods emerge and live in the hominid brain and as long as they are granted power over the dream-kingdom people will submit to their iron hand.

That's alright for most folks.
That's their entire world.
They are born and die......never having opened their eyes.
That's the dream.

But a few rebels will always be standing on street corners to speak of a far more open, flowing place just outside of the fetid little stagnant pools to which the mind of man gravitates.

The whole cast of gods and demigods.....saints and martyrs......icons and matinee idols....actors and politicians...priests and gurus......keep the sense of self centered and secure in its inferiority.

And when one shines a light into their lair......their keepers scurry around to protect them......they feign anger.....they posture aggressively and threaten recriminations or even expulsion from the group.

They speculate on what their gods would do if they were confronted with a similar confusing circumstance.

Heretics are never welcome in any land....real or illusory.

Your reaction, which we all should know by now results from the great fear of losing your theistic support system along with your personal identity.

Which, by the way, is the same phenomenon.

If you were to openly question your personal reactions to my posts and do some honest research into the origin and validity of your personal gods........you just might take that giant leap......into nothing.

Either way.....I have immensely enjoyed your company....well.....I have enjoyed surfing the ripples on the surface of this most peculiar mind that we share.

And I thank you for that.


toombaru




Laughing


Toom



Although you out did yourself with a fine piece of writing, my 'huff' is not on the level of rebelling heresy and cathedrals.

Surely, there are bible websites where your words about religion would be seen as rebellious heresy, but i seriously doubt there's anyone on this forum who believes in that old testament god-the-father stuff.

Perhaps I am not Californian enough to "to openly question personal reactions to posts and doing some honest research into the origin and validity of personal gods" but if I take a look anyway, I can honestly say that I would respond the same way if some one here would 'pepper' the forum with politics or sports.

It's fine to bring such things up. Just like its fine to discus wild strawberries, cats, dogs, falling leaves, the environment, science, jokes, feelings and fairy-tales, but if you really want to 'convert' people entrenched in old fashioned religion there must be better places to do this.

Feel free to share your wit and original postings here, but please do go lightly on this god/religion stuff.


.
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toombaru



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: Sumthin. Reply with quote

awakening wrote:
toombaru wrote:






The cathedral of self is built from and buttressed by its imaginary gods.
The only light that enters streams in through stained glass.

It is not God or Jesus that I am trying cast from their nest in the dream of personal autonomy.
It is god-thinking that is the culprit and is the focus of intent.

Man and his god
are like peas in a pod.

They are mutually co-dependent.
They need each other to exist.

Whenever one falls.......they both succumb.

The mind of man bolsters its delusional stance and its illusory persona with the idea that there is something bigger and better than itself.

It carries its crosses, crescents, flags and banners into its daily battle to keep its little homestead safe and secure.

It forms alliances with those predisposed to the same delusions.

They prod each other along the dark roads of the unknown.......winding ever downward into the caverns of their own imagination.

It doesn't matter if one's god lives in heaven or in a hole in Iran.

One's god can be a collage of "oneness", "advaita", "big self", "enlightenment", "hope", "love", "country", "charity", "guru", "vegetarianism", ancestors, movie stars or rap artists, web forums, crosses, crescents, flags, symbols, etc, etc, etc.

Ultimately all gods emerge and live in the hominid brain and as long as they are granted power over the dream-kingdom people will submit to their iron hand.

That's alright for most folks.
That's their entire world.
They are born and die......never having opened their eyes.
That's the dream.

But a few rebels will always be standing on street corners to speak of a far more open, flowing place just outside of the fetid little stagnant pools to which the mind of man gravitates.

The whole cast of gods and demigods.....saints and martyrs......icons and matinee idols....actors and politicians...priests and gurus......keep the sense of self centered and secure in its inferiority.

And when one shines a light into their lair......their keepers scurry around to protect them......they feign anger.....they posture aggressively and threaten recriminations or even expulsion from the group.

They speculate on what their gods would do if they were confronted with a similar confusing circumstance.

Heretics are never welcome in any land....real or illusory.

Your reaction, which we all should know by now results from the great fear of losing your theistic support system along with your personal identity.

Which, by the way, is the same phenomenon.

If you were to openly question your personal reactions to my posts and do some honest research into the origin and validity of your personal gods........you just might take that giant leap......into nothing.

Either way.....I have immensely enjoyed your company....well.....I have enjoyed surfing the ripples on the surface of this most peculiar mind that we share.

And I thank you for that.


toombaru




Laughing


Toom



Although you out did yourself with a fine piece of writing, my 'huff' is not on the level of rebelling heresy and cathedrals.

Surely, there are bible websites where your words about religion would be seen as rebellious heresy, but i seriously doubt there's anyone on this forum who believes in that old testament god-the-father stuff.

Perhaps I am not Californian enough to "to openly question personal reactions to posts and doing some honest research into the origin and validity of personal gods" but if I take a look anyway, I can honestly say that I would respond the same way if some one here would 'pepper' the forum with politics or sports.

It's fine to bring such things up. Just like its fine to discus wild strawberries, cats, dogs, falling leaves, the environment, science, jokes, feelings and fairy-tales, but if you really want to 'convert' people entrenched in old fashioned religion there must be better places to do this.

Feel free to share your wit and original postings here, but please do go lightly on this god/religion stuff.


.




Leo,

I relate to the travails involved in owning a list and maintaining a base line of temperance and civility; but I believe you missed the point of my post entirely.

There are no spiritual youngsters that are attracted to non-duality.

Every person here has spent years searching for the essence of being.

And I honor their efforts.

I honestly believe that this journey into self is the bravest adventure that a human mind can endure.

In truth, I am not speaking of God and gods and the lunacy of the belief structures they support.

I am speaking to the innate suffering that accompanies the sense of being a separate self and the tendency to result to religion to assuage that pain.

I am speaking to the aching loneliness that follows the I amness like a hungry animal and the terrible fear that arises from the apperception of its own impending doom.

I am speaking of the self and its highly evolved functions and support systems which sustain its personal pseudo-reality.

Its "higher powers" are merely a tool used to triangulate itself in the dream and assume a location.

When the charade is seen through......there is no location......no relativity.....no self.

And that apperception is all that "enlightenment" really is.

I am speaking about the resilience and tenacity with with the sense of self sustains its illusion of autonomy.

The self is the cause and result of conceptual confusion.

It is the cause of suffering.

I see no evidence that there is anything higher than the sentient-awareness that has evolved in homo sapiens.

Here...there is nothing greater.....or has a broader or more profound experiential pallet..... than the perceptual reality that is experienced through the human filter.

I do see evidence that all concepts of a higher being only serve to diminish the ego's personal reality and keep it in a position of abject servitude and self-serving gratitude.

To give the awe of being to imaginary powers strips the awareness of man to that of a beggar and is a tragedy that would put the Greeks to shame.

We all need those who rock the cradle........and those who seek the understanding of which the sages speak.......need those who rock the boat.

I am not inclined to alter my input......(and not even sure I can)...... to please and if you are ever inclined to cut the cord that binds us that will become the new what is.


Laughing
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aquarius



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 2408
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Sumthin. Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:


Leo,

I relate to the travails involved in owning a list and maintaining a base line of temperance and civility; but I believe you missed the point of my post entirely.

There are no spiritual youngsters that are attracted to non-duality.

Every person here has spent years searching for the essence of being.

And I honor their efforts.

I honestly believe that this journey into self is the bravest adventure that a human mind can endure.

In truth, I am not speaking of God and gods and the lunacy of the belief structures they support.

I am speaking to the innate suffering that accompanies the sense of being a separate self and the tendency to result to religion to assuage that pain.

I am speaking to the aching loneliness that follows the I amness like a hungry animal and the terrible fear that arises from the apperception of its own impending doom.

I am speaking of the self and its highly evolved functions and support systems which sustain its personal pseudo-reality.

Its "higher powers" are merely a tool used to triangulate itself in the dream and assume a location.

When the charade is seen through......there is no location......no relativity.....no self.

And that apperception is all that "enlightenment" really is.

I am speaking about the resilience and tenacity with with the sense of self sustains its illusion of autonomy.

The self is the cause and result of conceptual confusion.

It is the cause of suffering.

I see no evidence that there is anything higher than the sentient-awareness that has evolved in homo sapiens.

Here...there is nothing greater.....or has a broader or more profound experiential pallet..... than the perceptual reality that is experienced through the human filter.

I do see evidence that all concepts of a higher being only serve to diminish the ego's personal reality and keep it in a position of abject servitude and self-serving gratitude.

To give the awe of being to imaginary powers strips the awareness of man to that of a beggar and is a tragedy that would put the Greeks to shame.

We all need those who rock the cradle........and those who seek the understanding of which the sages speak.......need those who rock the boat.

I am not inclined to alter my input......(and not even sure I can)...... to please and if you are ever inclined to cut the cord that binds us that will become the new what is.


Laughing


What brilliance, what exceptional natural raw honesty, what intelligence, a pure example of a mind in full flow without floundering.

No frills, no fancy labeled sugar coated this is what you should know, just sheer naked truth.



Applause Applause Applause


Well said toomby.

Toombaru you tell it like it is, the whole world needs to hear it right now.

We're all from different cultural backgrounds, with different belief systems, different up-bringings, education, conditionings...etc

And tooms for one has realized that people are are now beginning to wake -up from their slumber.
They can smell a rat, they are working it out, they know how this worldly system works, and how it appears intent to feed the unprepared mind with the most unbelievable BS known to man.

People are sick and tired, they're starting to rebel
they are beginning to probe deep into their own minds,where they intuitively know that here is where their true self lies, here is their only refuge from all the lies and deceit.

People are starting to question their own beliefs and realities.
They might even say something like this......

''... hey hang on a minute, there's something not quite right about all this.... sooooo wait a cotton picking minute....'' what do 'I' think about all this... ''


Toombaru's tireless and relentless postings have had a great impact on me, coming here has been a most wonderful eye-opening learning curve where i have discovered so much about how the world really works, including myself.

I have visited this forum everyday, even after it had been closed down for a few years.
I still came here, because i needed to read this stuff, and believe it or not, nearly every post i looked at was a toombaru post,
because the T posts were the only posts that ever really cut it for me.

And i'm very grateful for that.
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it is the only thing i know anything about.
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awakening
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:

I honestly believe that this journey into self is the bravest adventure that a human mind can endure.

In truth, I am not speaking of God and gods and the lunacy of the belief structures they support.


But Toom, this is itself a belief structure. For example this statement:

toombaru wrote:

If you were to openly question your personal reactions to my posts and do some honest research into the origin and validity of your personal gods........you just might take that giant leap......into nothing.


This is a belief –well liked by many a seeker- keeping the illusion of autonomy and time going. It says that if you are really honest and diligently question your beliefs, you may make a giant leap. It offers the same hope that religion holds out.

Here is a story, a verifiable and repeatable experiment:
At the end of the night, sit quietly and face east. Your effort will be rewarded with bringing forth the light. And don’t worry if you oversleep, we are with many, so there is always someone on watch and up till now it never failed. So question, meditate, do the work and one day it will be you for which the light will come.


toombaru wrote:

The self is the cause and result of conceptual confusion.

It is the cause of suffering.


It can also be seen as an effect instead of a cause: as a ripple in the ocean…being nothing but the ocean rippling. Perhaps it is the nature of 'the alone one' to appear to itself as this dance of hide and seek. Suffering is included in this dance, but the imaginary personal self is part of this dance, not the perpetrator causing this.

toombaru wrote:

I see no evidence that there is anything higher than the sentient-awareness that has evolved in homo sapiens.

Here...there is nothing greater.....or has a broader or more profound experiential pallet..... than the perceptual reality that is experienced through the human filter.


And here I see no evidence that sentient awareness has evolved in homo sapience, just like I see no evidence that music has evolved through the radio filter. There is indeed nothing greater than that what appears AS the character with apparent sentient awareness, but the ocean IS the wave and for a wave to declare that there is nothing greater than the wave is missing the obvious.


toombaru wrote:
To give the awe of being to imaginary powers strips the awareness of man to that of a beggar and is a tragedy that would put the Greeks to shame.



‘This wave’ -when speaking from the wave perspective- gives all credit to the ocean as being ‘greater than this temporal wave identity. Yet it is seen that the true identity of each apparent single wave is nothing but that timeless ocean. It does not feel as a tragedy but it puts it into perspective: On a daily basis there is this character apparently moving trough time and space , aware of its own mortality and vulnerability, yet there is only the timeless infinite one appearing to itself as such a story. The mystery of self-originating, the mystery of self-organizing cell colonies into sentient beings, is awe inspiring and such awe does not feel as a loss or degradation. At its root awe and joy are indistinguishable and appear as an expressions of this unborn, undying tender mystery I am…a wide open secret.


toombaru wrote:

We all need those who rock the cradle........and those who seek the understanding of which the sages speak.......need those who rock the boat.

That is back to the same old story, that somehow trough the effort of some ‘boat-rocker’ (AKA a guru) one can reach an understanding. It is subtle, and dressed up in to a new fancy suit, but it is the same story again. Not that there is something wrong with stories…I am telling one right now.


toombaru wrote:
I am not inclined to alter my input......(and not even sure I can)...... to please and if you are ever inclined to cut the cord that binds us that will become the new what is.

Nor do I know what will happen. You may tell the other waves about an optional leap into the wide expanse of the ocean by learning to see trough the illusion, you may attack god, gods and the Olympus and I may smile at your eloquence and humor, or I may call it a day.



.
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo, I agree 100% with this story of yours...

Now, should I call myself a believer or a follower?

Too much '(Hollywood-)drama' in this 'Toom-story' for me...

What the heck...'I' am not a follower or a believer:

'I' just talk to 'myself'!
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awakening
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilaram wrote:


'I' just talk to 'myself'!


'I' hear you. Cool
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

awakening wrote:
dilaram wrote:


'I' just talk to 'myself'!


'I' hear you. Cool


Is good to hear that...

Smile
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ANNA



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 4093

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilaram wrote:
Leo, I agree 100% with this story of yours...

Now, should I call myself a believer or a follower?

Too much '(Hollywood-)drama' in this 'Toom-story' for me...

What the heck...'I' am not a follower or a believer:

'I' just talk to 'myself'!



soooooooo much ado about NO_THING.........lol


Wink Laughing
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dilaram
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ANNA wrote:
dilaram wrote:
Leo, I agree 100% with this story of yours...

Now, should I call myself a believer or a follower?

Too much '(Hollywood-)drama' in this 'Toom-story' for me...

What the heck...'I' am not a follower or a believer:

'I' just talk to 'myself'!



soooooooo much ado about NO_THING.........lol


Wink Laughing



That's because it is everything at the same time!

Wink Very Happy
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