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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makara,
I agree that there is a natural reciprocation going on. Balance is always in play. I'm just not clear on the "trouble afoot" that you mentioned.
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm just not clear on the "trouble afoot" that you mentioned.


Whenever a formerly reciprocal relationship
becomes unilateral there is suffering of one sort or another.
Ultimately unilateralism leads to collapse.

Once, not that long ago Companies surveyed
customers and then endeavoured to provide
what customers wanted.
Now Corporations don't bother to ask.
They have become unilateral. Pay yr bill or
yr service is cut off and nasty legal action follows.
Thus they are bound, ultimately, to collapse.

Closer to home - T wanted things to be one way,
unilateral. He ignored the Administrator's call to
stop god bashing and collapse ensued.
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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reminds me of what I've heard about the analysis of a caterpillar in transition to becoming a butterfly. It looks as though its systems are in crisis and is going to die....well you know the rest.


So does collapse equal crisis?
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
crisis
Question
Second time the terms of reference have been changed.
Crisis? I don't know of any crisis.

All I know is the kindergarten rules:
-share the toys and
-don't hog the sandpit.

How does the caterpillar analogy
fit into the discussion - which recently
is about reciprocity not unilaterality?
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aquarius



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 2408
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ne0 wrote:
Right now, I feel his presence like never before.


''The sage sees the whole universe without going out the door''
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ANNA



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 4093

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:

Closer to home - T wanted things to be one way,
unilateral. He ignored the Administrator's call to
stop god bashing and collapse ensued.



coooooeeeeeeeeeeee , makara! Smile

do you mean that toombaru

is being banned by

the Administrator?!


Shocked Rolling Eyes
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Matt



Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
makara wrote:
Quote:
If it's not in what he says, it may be what you say or someone else.


and all relationships are reciprocal.

When that reciprocity ends there's trouble afoot.


Is there reciprocity or is there an expectation (belief) of reciprocity and that it look a particular way that brings trouble; isn't it the implicit and vague nature of expectations that brings trouble i.e. one's own suffering?


I agree with Xmac.

IMHO Toomy holds up a mirror and you either react to the blinding glint and turn away, or you go further and look in, but it all depends on *you* - that's his point.

He's a madman Laughing and madly determined to push a few who will not turn away. Where his relentless motivation comes from I can't fathom, but I am thankful for it.

Did you ever meet a kindly zen master… I doubt it.
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ANNA



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 4093

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt wrote:
Xmac wrote:
makara wrote:
Quote:
If it's not in what he says, it may be what you say or someone else.


and all relationships are reciprocal.

When that reciprocity ends there's trouble afoot.


Is there reciprocity or is there an expectation (belief) of reciprocity and that it look a particular way that brings trouble; isn't it the implicit and vague nature of expectations that brings trouble i.e. one's own suffering?


I agree with Xmac.

IMHO Toomy holds up a mirror and you either react to the blinding glint and turn away, or you go further and look in, but it all depends on *you* - that's his point.

He's a madman Laughing and madly determined to push a few who will not turn away. Where his relentless motivation comes from I can't fathom, but I am thankful for it.

Did you ever meet a kindly zen master… I doubt it.



yes, Matt, there are a lot of kindly Zen Masters.......smile Smile


i recall now at least for two of them

Shri Chinmoy and Thich Nhat Hanh


no gothinkexist.com/english/Author/x/Author_4223_1.htm


Wink Cool Very Happy
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
zen master

Hagiography in the making.

If you want to dish it out to others
then you must be prepared to also
take it.
He couldn't take it. Look back for yrself.

BTW - his departure was entirely in his hands;
all that was required was a little respect to the
Administrator who kindly, from his own pocket,
carries this forum.
Seems he couln't give that small thing .. so go figure.

I shall miss a unique, though often too abstract,
mode of expression and some sharp insights.
But everyone posting here has made great
posts at some stage. No one is the 'Abbot'
here and no-one has a monopoly on truth.
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aquarius



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 2408
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
In the above post it is clear that the referent is
this (dreamed up) world. Clearly in truth there is
no T, no saints, no recoprocity, no jealousy ....


You are absolutely correct mak.

''The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable''

Very Happy
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Matt



Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TNH etc yes, kindly in ordinary settings yes, but I meant in such contexts as dokusan.

I did raise the 'hegemony' thing a while back - I do understand where the Toomy critics are coming from.

But whether T is flawed or not, there is richness in being provoked - it reminds you where the razors edge is.
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
there is richness in being provoked


It is said Matt that nature abhors a vacuum.
Let's see what this
space allows.
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ne0



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:
Quote:
He is becoming a saint!

Far from it. He seems unable or unwilling
to accept his own advice to others.

Just like several other saints. I wasn't talking about him, but about what's being said about him. I see people memorize him, critically or not, and defend his honor. Which is okay by the way.

aquarius wrote:
ne0 wrote:
Right now, I feel his presence like never before.


''The sage sees the whole universe without going out the door''

I see you. Razz

makara wrote:
If you want to dish it out to others
then you must be prepared to also
take it.
He couldn't take it. Look back for yrself.

The only real T is you. Can YOU take it? Twisted Evil
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can YOU take it?


Yes.
I have shared my vulnerability more than once
and asked many genuine questions -
ie exposed my not knowing.

I've also read all the books and can
quote second hand;
but the real reason I am here (in this forum)
is to share my devotion to truth/reality/consciousness.
And that means not looking outside
to bibles, gurus or knowitalls.
Always happy to share though.
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Matt



Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

makara wrote:


I've also read all the books and can
quote second hand;



Cool blinzel
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