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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



There is no such thing as a person.
The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.
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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



There is no such thing as a person.

The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.


So there is such thing as a person: an inference, a mind map, etc.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



There is no such thing as a person.

The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.


So there is such thing as a person: an inference, a mind map, etc.






There is a person in the sense that there are people in your dreams at night.
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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



There is no such thing as a person.

The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.


So there is such thing as a person: an inference, a mind map, etc.






There is a person in the sense that there are people in your dreams at night.


Then people, concept(s), are part of a waking experience and a delusional or dreaming experience.
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
in a New Bloom, a New Community


..."This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius...
hamony & understanding, sympathy & trust abounding..."

oopps sorry folks, slipped into a good old musical there....

"when Jupiter aligns with Mars...."


Laughing
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



There is no such thing as a person.

The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.


So there is such thing as a person: an inference, a mind map, etc.






There is a person in the sense that there are people in your dreams at night.


Then people, concept(s), are part of a waking experience and a delusional or dreaming experience.





For the sense of self there is no waking experience.
It IS the delusion from which it seeks freedom.
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empty-and-full



Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1448
Location: Unknown

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



holding a position on something is like holding an opinion,


it's being involved in interpretation, in egoic thinking

to be person, you need to believe in the thought i am a person, or i am a human being

this is holding a position

therefore being a person means holding a position

the opposite of this of course

is having no idea whatsoever about who or what you are

it's about not really being involved in conceptualization

being still...
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makara



Joined: 10 Apr 2010
Posts: 1341
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
is having no idea whatsoever about who or what you are

it's about not really being involved in conceptualization

being still...


(drat FFox again fails to open emoticon page)
so insert 'clapping'.
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Xmac



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 200
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

empty-and-full wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



holding a position on something is like holding an opinion,


it's being involved in interpretation, in egoic thinking

to be person, you need to believe in the thought i am a person, or i am a human being

this is holding a position

therefore being a person means holding a position

the opposite of this of course

is having no idea whatsoever about who or what you are

it's about not really being involved in conceptualization

being still...


I think Toombaru disagrees with your opening statements and it's not what I was asking.

BTW, if held positions or opinions are scrutinized by extensive inquiry they would be seen as non-existent. Terms like "ego" and "sense of self" are just more distraction that we are something separate from ourselves or the world; that we are cut off from peace. It is more belief in good guys and bad guys.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xmac wrote:
empty-and-full wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



holding a position on something is like holding an opinion,


it's being involved in interpretation, in egoic thinking

to be person, you need to believe in the thought i am a person, or i am a human being

this is holding a position

therefore being a person means holding a position

the opposite of this of course

is having no idea whatsoever about who or what you are

it's about not really being involved in conceptualization

being still...


I think Toombaru disagrees with your opening statements and it's not what I was asking.

BTW, if held positions or opinions are scrutinized by extensive inquiry they would be seen as non-existent. Terms like "ego" and "sense of self" are just more distraction that we are something separate from ourselves or the world; that we are cut off from peace. It is more belief in good guys and bad guys.


We are cut off from peace like the wind is cut off from stillness.
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fox



Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 821
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



There is no such thing as a person.
The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.


hmmmm, but what then is "the physical organism"...?!
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fox wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:


(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.


What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?



There is no such thing as a person.
The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.


hmmmm, but what then is "the physical organism"...?!




The meat-body.
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fox



Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 821
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the "meat-body" is 'real'?
(Whereas the mnemonic debris is not?)
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Blossom



Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 99
Location: Ojai, California

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="toombaru We are cut off from peace like the wind is cut off from stillness.[/quote]

We cannot ever be cut off from Awareness and Awareness is Peace whether we know it or not---Awareness is not concerned with what goes on with the images within Its Beingness. Or say it this way: you can change the word Awareness to stillness, its the same thing, but Awareness is 'stillness' in that it cannot be altered. (Stillness) Awareness is not ruffled when the wind blows. Awareness is not changed when the wind blows. Awareness exists no matter how loud or forceful or chaotic the wind might be--- Awareness is not cut off when the wind blows. (Stillness) which is the same as Awareness (Peace), is not disturbed by or made loud when the voices shout.

Awareness is being the wind blowing and the one seeing the leaves russtle in the trees, and awareness is being the trees blowing in the wind---even if there is a hurricane force wind; awareness goes right on being aware completely free and totally unharmed by that force. even if the electric is cut off, and branches of the trees fall off---nothing happens to awareness; all that 'cutting off' is always "happening" or seen here within Awareness-Self-I-Am.
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What is bound on earth is bound in heaven and what is freed on earth is freed in heaven.
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toombaru



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 5189
Location: There are no locations

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fox wrote:
so the "meat-body" is 'real'?
(Whereas the mnemonic debris is not?)



The meat-body has a substantial reality.
Memories do not.
The mind of man lives in a psychedelic collage that blends the two worlds.
A persona emerges in the center and claims the imaginary land.

"If you can set it on the table......it is real."

Jan Cox
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