Who is going to decide?

Aurora
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:14 am

Who is going to decide?

Post by Aurora » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:23 pm

If I want to do one thing, and an other person wants me to do another thing, who is going to decide?

I mean I am going to decide.

The problem is that I am getting caught in the other persons negative emotions against me .

But I think it is important that I decide. I cannot do what other think to avoid them getting angry and disappointed with me .

I know this is not non- dualistic stuff, it is really very dualistic ! But I have a theory that to be really free to enjoy the non-dualistic stuff, you have to explore the dualistic stuff!
Hatima
Posts: 443
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Re: Who is going to decide?

Post by Hatima » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:26 pm

eldberg wrote:If I want to do one thing, and an other person wants me to do another thing, who is going to decide?

I mean I am going to decide.

The problem is that I am getting caught in the other persons negative emotions against me .

But I think it is important that I decide. I cannot do what other think to avoid them getting angry and disappointed with me .

I know this is not non- dualistic stuff, it is really very dualistic ! But I have a theory that to be really free to enjoy the non-dualistic stuff, you have to explore the dualistic stuff!
It seems to me, Eldberg, that it depends on the relationship between the two. If it is a marriage or partnership, then there are both persons' needs and the needs of the relationship. In general, the needs of the relationship, to me, take precedence over the needs of the individual. If its not a marriage or partnership, then its less clear. As regards duality or non-duality, there is no such thing as duality, just the appearance of it! Nothing to worry about there (even worrying is IT worrying)
Aurora
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:14 am

Re: Who is going to decide?

Post by Aurora » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:09 pm

Hatima wrote: It seems to me, Eldberg, that it depends on the relationship between the two. If it is a marriage or partnership, then there are both persons' needs and the needs of the relationship. In general, the needs of the relationship, to me, take precedence over the needs of the individual. If its not a marriage or partnership, then its less clear. As regards duality or non-duality, there is no such thing as duality, just the appearance of it! Nothing to worry about there (even worrying is IT worrying)
In a way I agree with you, in another not.

I have all my life taking care of other, being nice, much toooooo nice.

Now it is enough. I feel it as a lie to play nicer than I really am.

I want to do what I want myself, sometimes I give with an open heart and then it is ok to give, but I don't want to do things anymore if I am not forced to do them if I dont want to .

I want to live my life like I want to live it, and then if I meet people who will share time with me it is OK. But I don't want to pretend any longer , to give away my integrity only to be "nice".

To be a real relationship, then I think giving is given by itself.
And then it is what you say, but not when someone is so angry and self-supressed as I am , then I first have to feel and know what I want myself, because that I have never done , I have always been running after others.
sara
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Location: below sea level

Decisions decisions

Post by sara » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:46 pm


Oh eldberg.....1)->--

dear One, my heart goes out to you.

The way you have of writing openly and honestly
is always beautiful and shows you already have tremendous integrity.
I'm not going to speak to you now of that which we all know here,
'cause Hatima has already done that so beautifully. :D
Yet, from your reply, it doesn't seem to quite fit;
not exactly what you are looking for.

It doesn't seem so much that you need 'advice' as much as a need to 'express' yourself,
to bring it all out in the open in a measured, yet thorough manner,
to discover how you really feel about this situation
so that you can make a solid decision.
Relax, write to us and take YOUR time.

Love and HUGS,
sareldbergOne
There is only Love
toombaru
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Re: Who is going to decide?

Post by toombaru » Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:15 am

eldberg wrote:If I want to do one thing, and an other person wants me to do another thing, who is going to decide?

I mean I am going to decide.

The problem is that I am getting caught in the other persons negative emotions against me .

But I think it is important that I decide. I cannot do what other think to avoid them getting angry and disappointed with me .

I know this is not non- dualistic stuff, it is really very dualistic ! But I have a theory that to be really free to enjoy the non-dualistic stuff, you have to explore the dualistic stuff!



Relationships are impossible.

(bumper sticker)



toombaru



........and why does the spell checker keep underlining my name?
jeff j
Posts: 2822
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:49 pm

Re: Who is going to decide?

Post by jeff j » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:48 am

toombaru wrote:
eldberg wrote:If I want to do one thing, and an other person wants me to do another thing, who is going to decide?

I mean I am going to decide.

The problem is that I am getting caught in the other persons negative emotions against me .

But I think it is important that I decide. I cannot do what other think to avoid them getting angry and disappointed with me .

I know this is not non- dualistic stuff, it is really very dualistic ! But I have a theory that to be really free to enjoy the non-dualistic stuff, you have to explore the dualistic stuff!



Relationships are impossible.

(bumper sticker)



toombaru



........and why does the spell checker keep underlining my name?
Relationships are Titanic

(stern sticker) :lol:
be yourself, the real fictional character?
angela
Posts: 1078
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Location: uk

Re: Who is going to decide?

Post by angela » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:59 am

eldberg wrote:If I want to do one thing, and an other person wants me to do another thing, who is going to decide?

But I think it is important that I decide. I cannot do what other think to avoid them getting angry and disappointed with me .
I feel I have this type of issue with my children, who are aged 2 and 4, - they seem to want my undivided attention all of the time which is of course not possible and I often feel I have to 'close' myself to them or ignore them somehow,

I tell myself that I am being 'cruel to be kind' (kind to myself ?).....but it still feels quite cruel..... :?

But otherwise, I know if I try to 'pretend' to be enjoying something when I'm not I get very irritable, and they don't like that either!

Maybe finding a happy medium is the answer.
angela
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Location: uk

Re: Who is going to decide?

Post by angela » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:03 am

eldberg wrote:If I want to do one thing, and an other person wants me to do another thing, who is going to decide?

But I think it is important that I decide. I cannot do what other think to avoid them getting angry and disappointed with me .
I feel I have this type of issue with my children, who are aged 2 and 4, - they seem to want my undivided attention all of the time which is of course not possible and I often feel I have to 'close' myself to them or ignore them somehow,

I tell myself that I am being 'cruel to be kind' (kind to myself ?).....but it still feels quite cruel..... :?

But otherwise, I know if I try to 'pretend' to be enjoying something when I'm not I get very irritable, and they don't like that either!

Maybe finding a happy medium is perhaps the answer.
Matt
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:15 pm

Post by Matt » Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:06 pm

Hi Eldberg,

I feel I understand what you are saying because I am experiencing something like this myself – having identified that what has been going on all my life is a desire to please others … the burning question is what should I do next? Or more specifically, how should I handle the world now?

(I think that's what you're also saying)

For me, having shed (I think) this particularly comfortable modus operandi, I feel like I've been in free fall, and it's not a pretty place at times. Not having the surety of a tried and tested method of relating to the world feels awfully exposed.

Yes, it IS all just thinking and self image but finding one's way through the jungle of conditioned existence is easier said than done.

No answers here, but much sympathy.

Wishing you well,

Matt
wizdumb
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Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:58 pm

horizontal transmission (memetics)

Post by wizdumb » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:23 pm

When the you drops the
........ I's
there are no choices
toombaru
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Re: Who is going to decide?

Post by toombaru » Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:55 pm

angela wrote:
eldberg wrote:If I want to do one thing, and an other person wants me to do another thing, who is going to decide?

But I think it is important that I decide. I cannot do what other think to avoid them getting angry and disappointed with me .
I feel I have this type of issue with my children, who are aged 2 and 4, - they seem to want my undivided attention all of the time which is of course not possible and I often feel I have to 'close' myself to them or ignore them somehow,

I tell myself that I am being 'cruel to be kind' (kind to myself ?).....but it still feels quite cruel..... :?

But otherwise, I know if I try to 'pretend' to be enjoying something when I'm not I get very irritable, and they don't like that either!

Maybe finding a happy medium is perhaps the answer.




Nope......that's not he answer.


toombaru
angela
Posts: 1078
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:21 am
Location: uk

Re: Who is going to decide?

Post by angela » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:01 pm

toombaru wrote:
angela wrote:
I feel I have this type of issue with my children, who are aged 2 and 4, - they seem to want my undivided attention all of the time which is of course not possible and I often feel I have to 'close' myself to them or ignore them somehow,

I tell myself that I am being 'cruel to be kind' (kind to myself ?).....but it still feels quite cruel..... :?

But otherwise, I know if I try to 'pretend' to be enjoying something when I'm not I get very irritable, and they don't like that either!

Maybe finding a happy medium is perhaps the answer.




Nope......that's not he answer.


toombaru
Oh dear..... I seem to have given the impression of being a very bad mother.... in fact I'd say I'm about average..... now that's cleared up, could you please tell me the answer? :?
Aurora
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:14 am

Post by Aurora » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:39 pm

Matt wrote:Hi Eldberg,

I feel I understand what you are saying because I am experiencing something like this myself – having identified that what has been going on all my life is a desire to please others … the burning question is what should I do next? Or more specifically, how should I handle the world now?

(I think that's what you're also saying)

For me, having shed (I think) this particularly comfortable modus operandi, I feel like I've been in free fall, and it's not a pretty place at times. Not having the surety of a tried and tested method of relating to the world feels awfully exposed.

Yes, it IS all just thinking and self image but finding one's way through the jungle of conditioned existence is easier said than done.

No answers here, but much sympathy.

Wishing you well,

Matt
Hi Matt. Thank You. Feel you are experiencing some of the same things.
I have always been so eager to please others, I think I have been trying to buy something from others by sacrificing my own truth and force. Getting insecure and then needing others to confirm me.
I have also been a christian before and there it is also so important to do good to others and one self come second . To have own needs is egoistic and not good.

The happening that led to my post was that a friend of mine had a problem and wanted me to help , and I had some others plans and I answered that I could not help. The friend got disappoited and angry with me and felt that I was a very bad friend that she could not trust and that could not be considered when she needed someone.
I felt very bad afterwards . I have always had a picture of myself of being kind, and here I was really prioritating my self and my own needs before another person who was in trouble.
I did not even think what to do. I just answered that I had some others things I wanted to do. it just happened.

It is a force inside me that does not want to play "good" any longer .
It is more important to me to be authentic.

I am not "good". I am just as I am.

Love Eldberg
maple3
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Lose the guilt!

Post by maple3 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:08 pm

Eldberg, this is one of those unfortunate circumstances where "guilt" (i.e. self-accusation) becomes a habit... and also an inconvenience... and also a tool against oneself.

I also have some friends who get angry, tossing out accusations and blame when I can't/won't help them. And one way I resolved this problem with myself, was to think about how I respond when a friend says to me "no, sorry". Well, I certainly don't accuse or blame or pout. And I don't become angry. I just politely accept the fact that the other person can't accommodate me. So, one day I decided to use myself as a role model for how my friends should behave. And I realized that anybody who doesn't respond to my "no" in the same polite way that I do to their "no" is being unfair, impolite, and maybe even a bully.
eldberg wrote:The friend got disappoited and angry with me and felt that I was a very bad friend that she could not trust and that could not be considered when she needed someone.
The psychologists call this "emotional blackmail." Your "punishment" for not being accommodating, compliant, and cooperative, was to have your friend try to portray you to yourself in an unfavorable way, to make you feel unacceptable to yourself. Well, that's not such a good "friend" IMO. It's much more like manipulation, or a last-ditch effort at exploitation.

And this "accusation" may have been delivered (and received) as if it were a true statement, an indictment... but when seen again while stripped of all of its emotional overtones, isn't it totally the truth? After all, it's TRUE that you are not to be trusted when your friend needs someone, (because you may indeed have other things that are a priority)... and it's probably about time your friend accepted that (especially since she seems to have lost that perspective). Also it's about time for "you" to accept it too, that sometimes it's appropriate to say "no"... and to not feel bad about it at all.
eldberg wrote:I did not even think what to do. I just answered that I had some others things I wanted to do. it just happened.
Ah, this reminds me of Sailor Bob Adamson's book title What's wrong with right now - unless you think about it?. Yes, when you had a brief moment of "forgetting" to think about it, everything was exactly as it should have been, as it always was/is... and the perfect response from you "just happened." :D

Hope this helps. [wink]


Love
Aurora
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:14 am

Re: Lose the guilt!

Post by Aurora » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:47 pm

maple3 wrote: Also it's about time for "you" to accept it too, that sometimes it's appropriate to say "no"... and to not feel bad about it at all.
Thank You, I also did not see your new headline before I answered: Lose the guilt! That is a good headline.

And I guoted the sentence above that really learn me something : it is time for "me" to accept my own actions and decisions without guilt and blame .

Love

eldberg [wink]
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