Consciousness and Dreaming

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Consciousness and Dreaming

Post by michael » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:42 am

cimages wrote:The depths of Consciousness, shapeless, formless, colorless, odorless. From this, the dream world of manifestation arises with all of it’s intricacies in the form of a thought, an image, experienced by no one but conscious awareness.
Ahhhh! (The expression of re-cognition when words apparently written by another are understood to point to the self same indefinable reality that is here) :D
Isaiah 55 8-10 wrote: My thoughts, says the Lord, are not like yours, and my ways are different from yours. As high as the heavens are above the earth so high are my ways and thoughts above yours

‘Human thoughts’ are simply experienced as a ‘commentary’ on apparent events and things.

One’s real ‘thoughts’ or ‘ideas’ are evidenced in the whole experience of Life.

These ‘thoughts’ give rise to/are the appearance of fields and mountains, the star filled skies and the ocean depths, cities and people, the animate and the inanimate - all of creation made manifest in Consciousness (the Lord) - as in a dream.

This dream world is without 'substance', composed solely of colours and sounds and odours and tastes and feelings and meaning.

Through the power of Consciousness alone, these arise in concord (moment to moment), creating the impression of ‘people’ and ‘things’ - a world seen from a specific ‘perspective’.

There are no ‘things’ out there causing colours and other sensations to be formed into the patterns in which they appear each moment. It is sensations and meaning that together form the appearance of ‘things’.

This is not an explanation. The words: 'colours/seeing' and 'sounds/hearing' and 'meaning/knowing', etc. point to the reality that is here now.

It is said that sensations and meaning (the appearance of ‘things’) are ‘self arising’ because their source is:


Consciousness cannot be sensed or understood. It is the source of sensing and knowing.

Yet the fact of Consciousness (seeing, feeling, hearing, tasting, smelling, knowing and power) is undeniable.

The patterns of sensations and meaning seem to arise ‘spontaneously’ only because the source is unsensed and unknown.

Consciousness is not simply a passive witness to what appears. It is not hostage to the faculties (seeing, hearing, knowing etc.). The faculites are it and it is the faculties.

There is nothing forcing Consciousness to experience anything. It is witness and creator both. This play of life is ‘by through and for’ Consciousness alone.

'When' the faculites are quiet (as in deep sleep or meditation) there is nothing to perceive. This 'state' cannot be remembered for there is nothing to know or to sense here. There is no time.

What these words point to is further evidenced in a nightly dream.

In a nightly dream, it seems that ‘you’ are in the dream. In fact, the dream is in Consciousness. The ‘you’ that seems to be in the dream is merely a dream body composed of ‘coloured images’, with feelings and thoughts associated with the image. It seems ‘you’ have a body… but no head.

In the dream, you may touch ‘your head’, but you cannot see ‘your head’ directly. Of course, the feeling of ‘touching your head’ and any reflection you see of ‘your head’ are merely images/sensations in the dream. They have no reality.

The dream body (arms, torso and legs) is located at the ‘bottom’ of the dream image. The arms and hands appear to move and to do things in the dream… yet they do nothing, for the dream is not real. It is merely an image.

And yet, there may be the thought that “I am doing such and such”.

At the time of the dream, there is nothing to indicate that it is a dream… it seems ‘real’. It seems that you are this body doing these things. Only on waking, or in a lucid dream, is there a sense that ‘it was/is all a dream’.

In a nightly dream, the perceived cannot perceive. It seems that people in your dream react to ‘you’ as if they can see and feel and touch and taste and smell you… but they cannot.

As the dream is experienced from one perspective (‘you’) there are not ‘other consciousnesses’ experiencing it from the perspective of the other people in the dream. Consciousness is One.

‘Real life’ is no different. It is all a dream - composed of the same colours and sounds and feelings and odours and tastes and meaning as a nightly dream. And as with a nightly dream, One may suddenly re-cognise (awaken to the fact) that it is a dream. Though there really is no awakening… it is simply another experience. One is ever neither awake nor asleep.

See now that the person (from whose perspective the world is experienced) is only a body with arms torso and legs… but no head. This body is composed of colours and feelings and meaning. These are now arising in Consciousness.

See now that everyone perceived cannot perceive... they are mere images in the dream of life.

And yet, One may experience the world from every perspective. And, as One experiences life from any perspective all people seen (including the person you now seem to be) are mere images... they cannot perceive.

Such experiencing of each perspective is neither concurrent in time nor consecutive. It is wholly outside time.

See now the whole image (the ‘body’ and other ‘things’) hanging like a luminous ball in the void. Beyond the ‘edge’ and ‘behind’ is nothing – not black nor white… nothing.

This is it.

From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
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Post by toombaru » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:20 am

How does perception effect the colors seen? the odors tasted? the sounds heard?

even what I read is not what is there to be read. physicality lacks precision.

if i am who i am and all of who i am is contained in the self of consciousness and consciousness is perception specific than there is no consciousness that can exist.
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Post by michael » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:02 am


Whonowz :D

What is 'physicality'?

What is 'perception'?

What is being pointed to in the words 'if... consciousness is perception specific'?

...even what I read is not what is there to be read... just some 'black marks' on a 'blue background'. Where does the meaning come from??
What is the source of the coloured patterns?


What is Consciousness?

Seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling, knowing and power.

That Consciousness is, is self evident.

What is it?

No answer :D

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Post by toombaru » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:58 am

How can consciousness be seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling. These require a physical vehicle and a perceiver from within the vehicle.

Color doesn't exist. Light exists. Light waves reflect limited waves, the restrictions of the waves are perceived by a perceiver. How is it changed by the perceiver?

What is chartreuse? What is lime? What is seeing?

Perception is not to be trusted. So what is seeing?
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Post by michael » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:27 am

Ahh, now we come to the nub.
toombaru wrote:...seeing, hearing, tasting, smelling. These require a physical vehicle
How reality is turned on its head!

Any 'physical vehicle' is a 'perceived object'. Nothing perceived can perceive.

Any idea that there is a 'perceiver inside the perceived' is just an idea.

Consciousness is in no head, every head is in Consiounsness (as an image... sensations + meaning)
toombaru wrote:Color doesn't exist. Light exists.
Can you see 'lightwaves? The concept of light as a wave carrying a signal to a brain that is 'interpreted as colour' is just that: 'a concept'.

Colour is the experience. It is not mediated by any process. It is direct awareness. All ideas about the source of perception are just that: 'ideas' - including the ideas of 'light' and 'physical vehicles' and every other 'object' and 'process'.

What is chartreuse? It is the name of a colour.

What is seeing?

It is the faculty to see colour (and black and white)

By what proof is it perceived that 'physical bodies' exist?

Perception is not to be trusted... to tell anything about itself - other than the fact of perception itself

From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
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