not the body

stacey
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:01 am

not the body

Post by stacey » Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:51 am

even though you say you don't have a body- what do you feel and think most of the days...?

anyone?
meL

Post by meL » Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:45 am

sex

woody still IS

:shock:

what the hay are You guyz talkin' about ? ...the no body assertion
meL

Post by meL » Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:49 am

i am
the body
and You are God

i am
the Life
and You are God

Don't say THAT in public places.

Humility is Very practical :D :D
empty-and-full
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Location: Unknown

Re: not the body

Post by empty-and-full » Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:38 am

stacey wrote:even though you say you don't have a body- what do you feel and think most of the days...?

anyone?
I feel many sensations.

I wouldn't say there is no physical body here. There is definitely the appearance of one.

But I can't say I think anymore, even though thoughts still arise.
epi
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Re: not the body

Post by epi » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:21 am

stacey wrote:even though you say you don't have a body- what do you feel and think most of the days...?

anyone?

'Other'
epi
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Post by epi » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:25 am

Sri Ramana was ate up with the cancer and in terrible pain
back in the day.

When they brought him some special medicine he refused it and simply replied;

"You place too much importance on the body" :shock:

Its not a matter of diss-association or denial...its simply a matter of

how you choose to look at it.
awakening
Site Admin
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Post by awakening » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:07 am

emptyprincipal wrote:Sri Ramana was ate up with the cancer and in terrible pain
back in the day.

When they brought him some special medicine he refused it and simply replied;

"You place too much importance on the body" :shock:

Its not a matter of diss-association or denial...its simply a matter of

how you choose to look at it.
Playing along and assuming that there is a 'you' to choose this...
I treat the body as a dear pet.
Take it for walks
feed it
and make sure it takes its medicine when it needs it. :roll:
awakening
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Re: not the body

Post by awakening » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:14 am

empty-and-full wrote:
stacey wrote:even though you say you don't have a body- what do you feel and think most of the days...?

anyone?
I feel many sensations.

I wouldn't say there is no physical body here. There is definitely the appearance of one.

But I can't say I think anymore, even though thoughts still arise.
The 'I' that supposedly feels sensations
is itself but a felt sensation
appearing in this Vast Emptiness.
maple3
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 4:25 am
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Re: not the body

Post by maple3 » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:32 pm

stacey wrote:even though you say you don't have a body- what do you feel and think most of the days...?

anyone?
What does it feel like?

Most of the time it feels as if there is indeed a body. But then there are these intermittent and persistently recurring undeniable glimpses of the Reality that it's all made up. These "glimpses" (or what some would call SEEing, or KNOWing), are more like perceptual shifts, and have actually been going on since earliest memories, like peeking again and again behind the curtain into our unrealness. It used to frighten me, rattle me, and I thought I was coming unglued, (and in a sense, "I" guess "I" was! ;)). I found it nerve-wracking and wanted to be just like everyone else... i.e. oblivious, and so deeply entrenched within the dream that I couldn't know that it wasn't real. No, I didn't like these "hints" that this that seems real was really unreal.

The closest description I can think of ... it's a lot like when the holodek on Star Trek has a malfunction, and the images(dreams) spurt in and out, intermittently showing the holodek's grid along the walls... and everybody (even the hologram-y people) start looking around, wondering what's going on. Except when I look around and ask most others if they also notice the "malfunction" they look at me funny and move cautiously away as if I've suddenly grown another head. I can't really blame them, as the words I use to try to explain it don't make much sense. I used to get quite rattled by the "glimpses"... I mean, this is how most would define insanity, right? But now I realize it's perfectly normal to occasionally notice that "we" don't really exist, that we're all making it up in each moment.... and now I usually just have a good belly laugh about it, because depending on how I look at it, it can be truly hilarious. :idea:


Love
Last edited by maple3 on Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
empty-and-full
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Re: not the body

Post by empty-and-full » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:34 pm

awakening wrote:
empty-and-full wrote:
stacey wrote:even though you say you don't have a body- what do you feel and think most of the days...?

anyone?
I feel many sensations.

I wouldn't say there is no physical body here. There is definitely the appearance of one.

But I can't say I think anymore, even though thoughts still arise.
The 'I' that supposedly feels sensations
is itself but a felt sensation
appearing in this Vast Emptiness.
What would life be like without the scaffolding???
maple3
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 4:25 am
Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Post by maple3 » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:41 pm

emptyprincipal wrote:Sri Ramana was ate up with the cancer and in terrible pain
back in the day.

When they brought him some special medicine he refused it and simply replied;

"You place too much importance on the body" :shock:

Its not a matter of diss-association or denial...its simply a matter of

how you choose to look at it.
Referring to that part in blue...
When I watched the Ramana DVDs, I was acutely aware that he (and we) never had a "choice" about how we look at it (or anything). This idea that we can actually "choose" to look at it differently is also just part of the illusion. But I do agree it's not about denial either. I mean, I don't ever try to deny or disassociate from the "dreams" either, because that's also impossible, and ridiculous. ;) :D
empty-and-full wrote:What would life be like without the scaffolding???
Oo yeah, "I" do LIKE the "scaffolding" too! [tanz]


Love
Last edited by maple3 on Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
empty-and-full
Posts: 1448
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Location: Unknown

Re: not the body

Post by empty-and-full » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:47 pm

maple3 wrote:
stacey wrote:even though you say you don't have a body- what do you feel and think most of the days...?

anyone?
What does it feel like?

Most of the time it feels as if there is indeed a body. But then there are these intermittent and persistently recurring undeniable glimpses of the Reality that it's all made up. These "glimpses" (or what some would call SEEing, or KNOWing), are more like perceptual shifts, and have actually been going on since earliest memories, like peeking again and again behind the curtain into our unrealness. It used to frighten me, rattle me, and I thought I was coming unglued, (and in a sense, "I" guess "I" was! ;)). I found it nerve-wracking and wanted to be just like everyone else... i.e. oblivious, and so deeply entrenched within the dream that I couldn't know that it wasn't real. No, I didn't like these "hints" that this that seems real was really unreal.

The closest description I can think of ... it's a lot like when the holodek on Star Trek has a malfunction, and the images(dreams) spurt in and out, intermittently showing the holodek's grid along the walls... and everybody (even the hologram-y people) start looking around, wondering what's going on. Except when I look around and ask most others if they also notice the "malfunction" they look at me funny and move cautiously away as if I've suddenly grown another head. I can't really blame them, as the words I use to try to explain it don't make much sense. I used to get quite rattled by the "glimpses"... I mean, this is how most would define insanity, right? But now I realize it's perfectly normal to occasionally notice that "we" don't really exist, that we're all making it up in each moment.... and now I usually just have a good belly laugh about it, because depending on how I look at it, it can be truly hilarious. :idea:


Love
Fascinating post Maple,

So you would have "insights" and you would react to them, trying to close ranks and get rid of the openness, return to the old scaffolding that was "comfortable".

Amazing!

So these "insights" arose spontaneously without being involved in a teaching.

My story is different, the scaffolding was torture for me in last few years and any openness or movement towards "letting go" was embraced with open arms. But what's fascinating is that there's the appearance of teachings accelerating the release into openness whereas in your case that is not the case at all.

About a week ago, I would be walking and was aware of pretending to be a somebody and the funny thing was whenever someone would look me straight me in the eye I could swear that they were winking at me in a "knowing" way. As if they were aware of the "scam" also. :lol:
maple3
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Re: not the body

Post by maple3 » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:58 pm

empty-and-full wrote:What would life be like without the scaffolding???
Wow, that's such a good question, (and an interesting use of an interesting word ;)). In one sense, "scaffolding" could refer to the made-up stuff that we're often trying desperately to cling to, or something we use to try to hold together our illusions. Or it could refer to that made-up dream-like stuff that we can't deny no matter how hard we try. (I mean, there's no way to actually escape the "scaffolding," is there? :?:)

In any case, E&F, I think "scaffolding" is gonna be one of my new favorite words. I'm also wondering how I knew what you meant, because that whole sentence you wrote doesn't make any sense, (even though it obviously does ;) :D).


Love
maple3
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Post by maple3 » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:38 pm

emptyprincipal and empty-and-full...
kinda synonymous, eh? :shock:

Sorry, I've been getting you two mixed up. #-o

But got it straight now (I think) and edited some posts. :oops:
maple3
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Re: not the body

Post by maple3 » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:53 pm

empty-and-full wrote:So you would have "insights" and you would react to them, trying to close ranks and get rid of the openness, return to the old scaffolding that was "comfortable".
Yeah, that's about it, except looking back, I realize I was trying to "return" to something that didn't exist in the first place. After all, when you wake from a nightly dream where you won the lottery, can you actually "return" to having and spending money that didn't ever exist? (And yes, I've had the "winning the lottery" dream many times. Darnit, I sure do wish dream money was real. :().
empty-and-full wrote:So these "insights" arose spontaneously without being involved in a teaching.
Like I said, this goes back to earliest memories, age 2-3... So in a sense, when we discuss "being involved in a teaching," we are really talking about the UN-teaching of an illusion. And for some odd reason I was never able to completely buy into the typical "teaching" that the dream is real. So it's not really like I did something remarkable "without being involved in a teaching." It's more like I never properly "learned," so I didn't have to UNlearn. Except yeah, I did had to UNlearn that I didn't really need to return to the illusion. :roll: Hey, it seems one way or another, that "scaffolding" still gets a hold on ya. :roll:

Also, if anyone thinks any of this explanation makes me special, it doesn't. I've spent the last 20 years in torture, and in therapy, a bonafide emotional wreck. And emotional illness doesn't automatically stop when one SEEs. And when I look at what I've experienced in my whole life, I honestly wouldn't have minded being more delusional. :roll:
empty-and-full wrote:About a week ago, I would be walking and was aware of pretending to be a somebody and the funny thing was whenever someone would look me straight me in the eye I could swear that they were winking at me in a "knowing" way. As if they were aware of the "scam" also. :lol:
Yeah, I've had that feeling lately too. I guess it's an apparent result of no longer trying to "return" to the apparent dream? It's like every no-body is in on the joke. But oddly, I've had more of those experiences of extreme horror and terror, of thinking I was the only on the entire planet who knew this wasn't real. Geez, that's a seriously scary feeling, and damned lonely. (How about "waking up" and realizing that you're really and truly the only one (t)here? [shudder] Yeah, that "echo" really is just "you." :shock:) And the intense realization of intense alone-ness, and the DEAFENING SILENCE, was another way to rattle "me." But lately, I realize that no matter, all-is-as-it-is... and the one who is scared, lonely, tortured, rattled, or even giddy and happy, is still all just part of the same grand illusion, (or all from the same Source/source).


Love
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