Ken Wilber

godindrag
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:25 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by godindrag » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:40 pm

:lol: Sorry, I thought I was very clear - My trouble is I always overestimate my audience 8) :wink:

I can't relate to - and get irritated by - those who seem to be satisfied with either a dry intellectualism on one hand or an utterly confused emotionally addictive 'spiritual experience' trip on the other.. I get more irritated with the former group as I see my past in them :oops: and 'these days' am enjoying the quiet simple mystery of touching keys and tasting tomato soup - I just burped..

Hi Sara - I think there was a whale in the Thames last time.. I could be wrong, it's been about 2 years.. To mark this occasion in time I can tell you I have today straddled the crack in the Tate Modern - that'll confuse the Americans...
sara
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: below sea level

Shibboleth

Post by sara » Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:52 pm

godindrag wrote::lol: Sorry, I thought I was very clear - My trouble is I always overestimate my audience 8) :wink:
Always, Love? :wink:
LOL.... mind the gap!
Ever read our lovely maple3?
godindrag wrote:I can't relate to - and get irritated by - those who seem to be satisfied with either a dry intellectualism on one hand
or an utterly confused emotionally addictive 'spiritual experience' trip on the other..
I get more irritated with the former group as I see my past in them :oops:
Ah c'mon, Darlin', get over it already......you're both and you know it! 8)
godindrag wrote:...and 'these days' am enjoying the quiet simple mystery of touching keys and tasting tomato soup - I just burped..
Bless you again :D
(ah yes.... the quiet simple mysteries of 'angrily' banging keys, slurping and belching :P).
godindrag wrote:Hi Sara - I think there was a whale in the Thames last time.. I could be wrong, it's been about 2 years..
To mark this occasion in time I can tell you I have today straddled the crack in the Tate Modern - that'll confuse the Americans...
Oh Wow :D.... I used to visit the Tate everytime I crossed the other crack (when I lived in Holland).
Ever slide down the tubes? \:D/
I'm now in a remote earthquake-prone area in SE Asia, wonderful work, but been here too long, it seems.... LOTS of scary cracks.
I'm also working on removing some of those "borders"!
As a visitor from Australia commented at the Tate:
"To me, it clearly represents a tear in the fabric.....
nature at its most painful"
Yep..... so it seems.

And for the non-Europeans among us, a picture speaks:

Image

Love,
saralwaysinthecrack
There is only Love
sara
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: below sea level

Shibboleth

Post by sara » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:02 pm


Ooooh..... here's another:

Image

Love,
saraseesomefellinLOL
There is only Love
godindrag
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:25 pm
Location: London, UK

Post by godindrag » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:24 pm

Ah c'mon, Darlin', get over it already......you're both and you know it! 8)
I'm over it sweetie, and no I've never been a sugar addict - more of an ascetic cynical type.. but of course 'we' are all 'one' -tomato flavoured vomit alert!

ah yes.... the quiet simple mysteries of 'angrily' banging keys, slurping and belching :P
You sound like a pleasant date...
"To me, it clearly represents a tear in the fabric.....
nature at its most painful"
Yes the crack was mighty.. someone got their pramwheels caught in it - I watched but the baby wasn't sucked into Limbo..
annaruiz
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Ohio

Post by annaruiz » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:29 pm

the rip in the fabric of the universe.
the fault lies within us.


Anna
sara
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: below sea level

Post by sara » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:39 pm


:D

Default lies within us, too :wink:

Love,
annasarembrace
There is only Love
annaruiz
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Ohio

Post by annaruiz » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:48 pm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rj-4t9drUlM


I think this is where I came in..stage right.

(((((((sara'shugs))))))))


Love
sara
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: below sea level

Post by sara » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:06 pm


gid:
I watched but the baby wasn't sucked into Limbo..

Oh well....

I'll bet you had a good time anyway :P


gid:
You sound like a pleasant date...
You should get so lucky 8)

Love,
sara'dreadagidbook (um, read that as "read" :D)
There is only Love
joy
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 2:52 pm

Post by joy » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:40 pm

Here in the States, the newest trend is now "Advaita and Non-duality".....

And Godindrag, I think you are very 'right on'!

The photo is smug and arrogant, any sensitive soul can see that......

So, now it is trendy and everyone is becomeing a teacher and enlightened....Jeezus Chreeeist.........
"Everyone" here in the States is now saying things like "nothing that arises has an egoic being or "me" nature. A thought arising is
just a thought arising. ...." and they are very afraid to say "I" or "me" or "we"....its really very amuzing the limited trap some have fallen into in the name of freedom from the known and Enlightenment......

Trapped in the old unoriginal lingo of the boring 'satsang routine'

afraid to say "I" or "we" or "Oh, I was just thinking" they have to "This arises" as if there was no 'me' here-there...

So now what?....now Non-duality is the new fad....

It seems to me that these 'new teachers' imply that once the Subjective View (non-dual) is 'seen' ( always instantaneously, never in time because there is no time and no 'me' to get it) 'we' suddenly let go the 'ego' then 'we become this sort of 'headless witness' .....as if we can or are 'supposed to' live 'outside the body' ... (I say that if we were 'supposed' to be headless then that is how it would be)....

The Joyful discovery for me is that it is really quite the opposite of this. Upon the very slow but sure discoveries of 'who I am and who I am not" I have 'become' more 'my self'; original, genuine, unique, special (charming and delightful and fun to be with, at least to myself).

And with the discovery of Me I now have the gall to call this Self I Am The Child of God, made in His Image Likeness....It is Real, It is connected to The Living One, Eternal Changeless Presence and I am very grateful It found me! (yes, grateful) and it was Grace and Faith that brought me to this Sweet Peace. Nothing changed in my world, but I did and I still do.

I am not afraid to be contradictory, as I see that Life Itself is really nothing but an one enormous living contradiction. When we arrive at the Subjective view this does not eliminate the objective view at all.....it actually makes this world experience a million times more interesting, one that is deeper and more intriguing and always inviting to explore....I am certainly more fearless and ready to leap in and do what I can for the world/others/whatever falls in my lap.....

As much as these guys tell us that 'enlightenment' is instantaneous and 'just arising' from out 'no being', just that much I run the other way.....I say these inklings of Truth are found slowly, here a little, there a little, precept upon precept, progressive, in time, evolving. And we are all evolving, as one sees, the more see.....To discover that we 'are dreaming', to realize there is no 'me' et al, et el, this is not the final phase of things....there is more.

So much more....

From the Trendy part of town, Joy
sara
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Location: below sea level

Post by sara » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:46 pm

godindrag wrote: I see my past in them :oops: and 'these days' am enjoying the quiet simple mystery...

I have today straddled the crack
Image

Love,
sarahavin'funhangin'out,
finallyofftosleep
There is only Love
sara
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: below sea level

Post by sara » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:12 pm

annaruiz wrote:http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rj-4t9drUlM

I think this is where I came in..stage right.

(((((((sara'shugs))))))))


Love
Mmmm.... lovely, anna :D
....now to sleep, perchance to dream:

Words are flying out like
endless rain into a paper cup
They slither while they pass
They slip away across the universe
Pools of sorrow waves of joy
are drifting thorough my open mind
Possessing and caressing me

Images of broken light which
dance before me like a million eyes
That call me on and on across the universe
Thoughts meander like a
restless wind inside a letter box
they tumble blindly as
they make their way across the universe

Sounds of laughter shades of life
are ringing through my open ears
exciting and inviting me
Limitless undying love which
shines around me like a million suns
It calls me on and on across the universe*

Love,
saray,there'stherub :oops: 8)

*click anna's URL
There is only Love
annaruiz
Posts: 385
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:18 pm
Location: Ohio

Post by annaruiz » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:12 pm

One experience does not an 'experiencer' make.
Even as Life 101 is an ongoing experience of nonduality...

Like the Campbell's soup commercial: "It's in there". Even the kitchen sink.)
And isn't it grand? The cat's meow?

It's a bit fun too, to smile at the newly "advaitened'. (Like the born again Xtians. This too shall pass...)

Rolling On the Floor Laughing My Arse Off. Sometimes ya gotta spell out what life is REALLY all about, ya know ;-)

Silly rabbits, what were they thinking?

Bunny Love, of course! :wink:
sara
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:22 pm
Location: below sea level

Post by sara » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:17 pm


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Love,
sarinpassing
There is only Love
jeff j
Posts: 2822
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:49 pm

Post by jeff j » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:34 pm

sara wrote:
Image
be a love,
and give us a little nudge
:lol:
be yourself, the real fictional character?
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by michael » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:22 am

godindrag wrote:Hi :lol:
I felt like expressing, so :
There are many things that I can doubt, but I cannot doubt my own consciousness in this moment.
Anything can be doubted. Doubt is just thought.
There is no 'my consciousness' and no 'this moment' either.
Who am I? Ask that question over and over again, deeply. Who am I?
..Sure, if you like... questions and answers are a thought game.
So you can doubt the objects of consciousness, but you can never believably doubt the doubter, never really doubt the Witness of the entire display
Ah, it's believably doubt now.. :)
This pure I AM state is not hard to achieve but impossible to escape, because it is ever present and can never really be doubted
That which is ever present is not a state and is impossible to escape or achieve as there is nothing apart from it to do either.

I cannot doubt that the Witness exists in this moment, because the Witness would still be there to witness the doubt.
yada yada yada...
Simply ask, Who am I? Who am I? Who am I?
:roll:

the Witness itself will disappear entirely,
...oh you mean the one whose existence couldn't be doubted?

Um it was never there so it didn't disappear... what a load of...

ou and the entire Kosmos because One Taste – you can drink the Pacific Ocean in a single gulp, hold Mt. Everest in the palm of your hand; supernovas swirl in your heart and the solar system replaces your head…
Er... yeah busy gulping oceans and balancing mountains at the moment... Solar system seems to have dandruff...
And so how do you know that you have finally and really overcome the Cartesian dualism?
When you no longer utter sentences like this which assume dualism and that there is a you who can overcome it?

Very simple: if you really overcome the Cartesian dualism, then you no longer feel that you are on this side of your face looking at the world out there. There is only the world, and you are all of that; you actually feel that you are one with everything that is arising moment to moment. You are not merely on this side of your face looking out there. “In here” and “out there” have become One Taste with a shuddering obviousness and certainty so profound it feels like a five-ton rock just dropped on your head. It is, shall we say, a feeling hard to miss.
Who cares which 'feeling' is happening? Or in this case which thought story..
To paraphrase the breath of fresh air that is Nathan Gill: To attach any significance to whether there is a sense of me or not, IS the sense of me.
Who cares whether the me has fallen away - except me?
It's just another conditional story of experience in time - and certainly experiences are enjoyable and fun to talk about - everyone loves a good wank after all.

Just wanted to say I thought this was lame and dry and up itself - and backwards - it's about conditionality and experience - he's basically limping backwards up his own arse :lol:

Of course all words are wrong and its I guess about an intuitive reaction to where the words seem to be coming from - and to that picture of Mr. Wilber - it's just painful..

I check this forum out now and then and some of it is fun and stimulating -
though it often tastes of vomit, but hey, we all do from time to time.
Anyway bye! :lol:
x
hi gid... nice to see you back...

for a woman... you sure talk like a man... 8) :D
godindrag wrote:Hi :lol:
I felt like expressing,
no 'gid' to feel like doing anything... just the 'idea of gid', the 'expression'... and the 'feeling'... :D
godindrag wrote:...Of course all words are wrong and its I guess about an intuitive reaction to where the words seem to be coming from - and to that picture of Mr. Wilber - it's just painful..

I check this forum out now and then and some of it is fun and stimulating -
though it often tastes of vomit, but hey, we all do from time to time.
Anyway bye! :lol:
so... 'where do words seem to be coming from'... surely not any 'other'... 8)

and that 'vomit'... well... the only vomit is 'gid'... as the 'feeling and idea of vomit' arises...

whatever appears... 'from the perspective of gid'... is gid... if it is 'the words of Mr Wilber' and 'an intuitive reaction'... that is what gid is... in the apparent moment...

one story (Mr Wlber's) seemingly engendering another (gid's response)...

and another (michael's)... :D

which is really just one story...

as for words being 'wrong' when applied to 'reality'... only if they are taken to mean anything... :shock:

there are many words that are quite meaningless... like 'seeing/colour' and 'hearing/sound', for example... that are unmistakable symbols for this that they symbolise...

'knowing/number/form/meaning' too are perfectly good words (symbols)... that mean nothing at all...

without doubt (without thought)... 'number' is known in the instant it is imaged... I just don't know 'what' number is... or how I know it...

indeed... all 'number' remains ever hidden from 'direct perception'... I only know 'number' consciously through its 'symbol'... as imaged through sensation: as 'colour seen'... "4" or "four" or "quatre" or "****"... or the 'sound heard' as these words are seemingly spoken...

these 'grey marks seen' and the 'sounds heard' are not the 'number known'... but without its image... there seems to be no 'awareness' of 'number' at all...

as for 'number'... so with all 'form' and 'meaning'...

all 'doubting' is 'thought'...

the meaning (of thought) is known instantly... as it is imaged by 'subtle sound' in the apparent moment... no doubt... 8)

the 'sound' (of the thought) is itself meaningless... yet until the sound images it... the meaning remains hidden...

the association of 'subtle sound' and 'meaning' is experienced as 'thought'...

neat trick eh... :D

yes.. there are no moments... the rise and fall of sensations alone gives the appearance of a moment... if I think about it... though nothing changes... :roll:

including 'me'... which ever 'me' I seem to be... including
you dear gid...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
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