The Ultimate State

godszen · Post by **godszen** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:23 am

Ignorance..........not knowing that you don't know.

michael · Post by **michael** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:00 am

godszen wrote:Ignorance..........not knowing that you don't know.

I'm ignoring that...

Love

meL · Post by **meL** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:54 am

michael wrote:
godszen wrote:Ignorance..........not knowing that you don't know.
I'm ignoring that...

Love

AND

not rejecting.

The Creation is so subtle sometimes.

jeff j · Post by **jeff j** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:03 pm

godszen wrote:Ignorance..........not knowing that you don't know.

"Why is ignorance bliss?
It's everywhere! Why are people happier in their own secluded worlds, lying to themselves and putting others down for a belief that they might have? Why are wars started over religion when no one knows the truth? Why are children beat up for being different? ... Why is ignorance such sweet bliss to humanity and yet, at the same time, destroying us?"
http://allphilosophy.com/topic/show/1658

jeff j · Post by **jeff j** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:14 pm

and isn't ignorance (bliss)
similar to the end of questioning?
questioning the way a seeker questions,
questions that seek after truth(s)...?
i can say
I don't know and i don't care,
but if i secretly do care and do want to know
then i suffer seeking and questioning (no bliss)

but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,
bliss, the blessed relief from the suffering of wanting to know
and wanting to know that which cannot be known,
if it is believed it is known, then it is belief
and there is bliss in belief (false knowing)
which brings us back to religion,
(bliss that will cost you 10 percent and forgive your sins,
which of course allows sins...ahhhhh bliss)

who knows where we will land;
in the land of bliss in false beliefs
or the beliefless blissfull land at the end of seeking...

or somewhere inbetween (the path)

what if it's all bliss?

and someone forgot to tell us?
or maybe that scroll was burned by the inquisitor

toombaru · Post by **toombaru** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:03 pm

godszen wrote:Ignorance..........not knowing that you don't know.

The Ultimate State is California.

toombaru

godszen · Post by **godszen** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:27 pm

.....and the ultimate city is Sun Diego

godszen · Post by **godszen** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:33 am

jeff j wrote: but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,

this is fairly close to the perspective from which the statement comes......

when there is no knowledge of any particular things, not even a knower, only bliss without boundaries

michael · Post by **michael** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:14 am

godszen wrote:
jeff j wrote: but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,
this is fairly close to the perspective from which the statement comes......

when there is no knowledge of any particular things, not even a knower, only bliss without boundaries

it is only an idea... that ideas destroy bliss...

Love

michael · Post by **michael** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:15 am

jeff j wrote:and isn't ignorance (bliss)
similar to the end of questioning?
questioning the way a seeker questions,
questions that seek after truth(s)...?
i can say
I don't know and i don't care,
but if i secretly do care and do want to know
then i suffer seeking and questioning (no bliss)

but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,
bliss, the blessed relief from the suffering of wanting to know
and wanting to know that which cannot be known,
if it is believed it is known, then it is belief
and there is bliss in belief (false knowing)
which brings us back to religion,
(bliss that will cost you 10 percent and forgive your sins,
which of course allows sins...ahhhhh bliss)

who knows where we will land;
in the land of bliss in false beliefs
or the beliefless blissfull land at the end of seeking...

or somewhere inbetween (the path)

what if it's all bliss?
and someone forgot to tell us?
or maybe that scroll was burned by the inquisitor

jeff... it is said that we become like the thing we most hate...

why do you suppose that is so?

Love

jeff j · Post by **jeff j** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:28 pm

michael wrote:
jeff j wrote:and isn't ignorance (bliss)
similar to the end of questioning?
questioning the way a seeker questions,
questions that seek after truth(s)...?
i can say
I don't know and i don't care,
but if i secretly do care and do want to know
then i suffer seeking and questioning (no bliss)

but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,
bliss, the blessed relief from the suffering of wanting to know
and wanting to know that which cannot be known,
if it is believed it is known, then it is belief
and there is bliss in belief (false knowing)
which brings us back to religion,
(bliss that will cost you 10 percent and forgive your sins,
which of course allows sins...ahhhhh bliss)

who knows where we will land;
in the land of bliss in false beliefs
or the beliefless blissfull land at the end of seeking...

or somewhere inbetween (the path)

what if it's all bliss?
and someone forgot to tell us?
or maybe that scroll was burned by the inquisitor

jeff... it is said that we become like the thing we most hate...

why do you suppose that is so?

Love

what we hate
is love's message to stop hating,
when we hate (whatever)
we focus on it very intently,
we argue for it's hatefullness,
we try to convince others to hate it as well,
and in the process we see through it
to love's message...
then we either move on to the next thing
we learn to hate
or
we imagine that love's message is behind all of it
so we give up the fight...

i don't know...why do you suppose?

aquarius · Post by **aquarius** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:18 pm

jeff j wrote:
michael wrote:
jeff j wrote:and isn't ignorance (bliss)
similar to the end of questioning?
questioning the way a seeker questions,
questions that seek after truth(s)...?
i can say
I don't know and i don't care,
but if i secretly do care and do want to know
then i suffer seeking and questioning (no bliss)

but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,
bliss, the blessed relief from the suffering of wanting to know
and wanting to know that which cannot be known,
if it is believed it is known, then it is belief
and there is bliss in belief (false knowing)
which brings us back to religion,
(bliss that will cost you 10 percent and forgive your sins,
which of course allows sins...ahhhhh bliss)

who knows where we will land;
in the land of bliss in false beliefs
or the beliefless blissfull land at the end of seeking...

or somewhere inbetween (the path)

what if it's all bliss?
and someone forgot to tell us?
or maybe that scroll was burned by the inquisitor

jeff... it is said that we become like the thing we most hate...

why do you suppose that is so?

Love
what we hate
is love's message to stop hating,
when we hate (whatever)
we focus on it very intently,
we argue for it's hatefullness,
we try to convince others to hate it as well,
and in the process we see through it
to love's message...
then we either move on to the next thing
we learn to hate
or
we imagine that love's message is behind all of it
so we give up the fight...

i don't know...why do you suppose?

i know this is not for me,
but i'd like to step in anyway,
because i think there is a beautiful message written here,

it's a sticky old topic love .. cos it ain't got no opposites ..

..

jeff j · Post by **jeff j** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:22 pm

aquarius wrote:
jeff j wrote:
michael wrote:
jeff j wrote:and isn't ignorance (bliss)
similar to the end of questioning?
questioning the way a seeker questions,
questions that seek after truth(s)...?
i can say
I don't know and i don't care,
but if i secretly do care and do want to know
then i suffer seeking and questioning (no bliss)

but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,
bliss, the blessed relief from the suffering of wanting to know
and wanting to know that which cannot be known,
if it is believed it is known, then it is belief
and there is bliss in belief (false knowing)
which brings us back to religion,
(bliss that will cost you 10 percent and forgive your sins,
which of course allows sins...ahhhhh bliss)

who knows where we will land;
in the land of bliss in false beliefs
or the beliefless blissfull land at the end of seeking...

or somewhere inbetween (the path)

what if it's all bliss?
and someone forgot to tell us?
or maybe that scroll was burned by the inquisitor

jeff... it is said that we become like the thing we most hate...

why do you suppose that is so?

Love
what we hate
is love's message to stop hating,
when we hate (whatever)
we focus on it very intently,
we argue for it's hatefullness,
we try to convince others to hate it as well,
and in the process we see through it
to love's message...
then we either move on to the next thing
we learn to hate
or
we imagine that love's message is behind all of it
so we give up the fight...

i don't know...why do you suppose?
i know this is not for me,
but i'd like to step in anyway,
because i think there is a beautiful message written here,

it's a sticky old topic love .. cos it ain't got no opposites ..

..

it's all for you love

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:21 pm

michael wrote:
jeff j wrote:and isn't ignorance (bliss)
similar to the end of questioning?
questioning the way a seeker questions,
questions that seek after truth(s)...?
i can say
I don't know and i don't care,
but if i secretly do care and do want to know
then i suffer seeking and questioning (no bliss)

but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,
bliss, the blessed relief from the suffering of wanting to know
and wanting to know that which cannot be known,
if it is believed it is known, then it is belief
and there is bliss in belief (false knowing)
which brings us back to religion,
(bliss that will cost you 10 percent and forgive your sins,
which of course allows sins...ahhhhh bliss)

who knows where we will land;
in the land of bliss in false beliefs
or the beliefless blissfull land at the end of seeking...

or somewhere inbetween (the path)

what if it's all bliss?
and someone forgot to tell us?
or maybe that scroll was burned by the inquisitor

jeff... it is said that we become like the thing we most hate...

why do you suppose that is so?

Love

Hi Michael,

There is no becoming being. We already are what we most hate and project that quality onto others.

Richard

michael · Post by **michael** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:01 am

Richard wrote:
michael wrote:
jeff j wrote:and isn't ignorance (bliss)
similar to the end of questioning?
questioning the way a seeker questions,
questions that seek after truth(s)...?
i can say
I don't know and i don't care,
but if i secretly do care and do want to know
then i suffer seeking and questioning (no bliss)

but if i stop asking these kinds of questions
(or when these kinds of questions stop)
i.e. infinite, unknowable, ineffable, unaswerable, inexpressible etc.
then bliss returns,
bliss, the blessed relief from the suffering of wanting to know
and wanting to know that which cannot be known,
if it is believed it is known, then it is belief
and there is bliss in belief (false knowing)
which brings us back to religion,
(bliss that will cost you 10 percent and forgive your sins,
which of course allows sins...ahhhhh bliss)

who knows where we will land;
in the land of bliss in false beliefs
or the beliefless blissfull land at the end of seeking...

or somewhere inbetween (the path)

what if it's all bliss?
and someone forgot to tell us?
or maybe that scroll was burned by the inquisitor

jeff... it is said that we become like the thing we most hate...

why do you suppose that is so?

Love

Hi Michael,

There is no becoming being. We already are what we most hate and project that quality onto others.

Richard

all 'becoming' is apparent only... and yes... all that appears 'hateful' is already conceived... already one with the knowing of it...

yes... I am already what I hate most... and project hate that onto apparent others...

so when I hate god... I am that hate...

Love

The Ultimate State

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