"Now"

meL

Re: "Now"

Post by meL » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:53 pm

toombaru wrote:It takes a tenth of a second for the brain to assimilate incoming data.

Does that tell you anything?





:roll:



toombaru
EVERYTHING
in 0.10 sec
.
Your post is another VERY BEST EVER post.
.
empty-and-full
Posts: 1448
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Re: "Now"

Post by empty-and-full » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:00 pm

meL wrote:
toombaru wrote:It takes a tenth of a second for the brain to assimilate incoming data.

Does that tell you anything?





:roll:



toombaru
EVERYTHING
in 0.10 sec
.
Your post is another VERY BEST EVER post.
.

No it's not!!!

It's 0.10 seconds late!!!

It's ancient history!!! [bigsmile]
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: "Now"

Post by michael » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:31 am

toombaru wrote:It takes a tenth of a second for the brain to assimilate incoming data.

Does that tell you anything?

:roll:
what it says is that (from toombaru's perspective)... this dream of 'brains' is apparently very persistent...

last time I checked... I couldn't find My brain anywhere... :shock:

perhaps toomby could say where 'his brain' is... and I'll see if mine is there too... :D

actually... I know they are in the same place...

right here in the knowing of them...

the only 'place' they ever are...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
michael
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by michael » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:44 am

toombaru 8) ... don't misunderstand...

the 'brain' 'functions' just as it appears to... with sensory data acting on the nervous system... creating signals that travel as electro-chemical impulses.. releasing hormones and neuro-transmitters... which 'mediate' the apparent experience of the assumed 'real world' (outside the head)... that seems to 'appear 0.10 seconds after the 'event' in the (assumed) 'real world'...

but this whole scenario is purely 'conceptual'...

if it appears "I am blind" as a result of a congenital defect in 'my brain'... then no images are seen... as life is experienced from the perspective of the 'blind man'...

but the 'seeing' is not 'damaged'... for the 'whole world'... including the 'malformed brain'... is all story...

when the story is seen as it is...

why continue to cling to it... dear One...

though of course there is no 'clinging'... 8)

there is just the story... being experienced... from each perspective...

no 'michael'... and no 'toombaru'... with apparently different viewpoints...

just this story...

inseparable from the One in which it appears and for which it is apparent...

though no 'thing' is apparent at all... just these 'sensations' rising and falling... in concord with this that is known... ever unchanged...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
toombaru
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Post by toombaru » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:29 am

michael wrote:toombaru 8) ... don't misunderstand...
the 'brain' 'functions' just as it appears to... with sensory data acting on the nervous system... creating signals that travel as electro-chemical impulses.. releasing hormones and neuro-transmitters... which 'mediate' the apparent experience of the assumed 'real world' (outside the head)... that seems to 'appear 0.10 seconds after the 'event' in the (assumed) 'real world'...

but this whole scenario is purely 'conceptual'...

How could that be known?
By whom could that be known?

if it appears "I am blind" as a result of a congenital defect in 'my brain'... then no images are seen... as life is experienced from the perspective of the 'blind man'...

but the 'seeing' is not 'damaged'... for the 'whole world'... including the 'malformed brain'... is all story...







My friend Madison is twelve years old..........she is blind.

I'm sure that she will be glad to hear that.







when the story is seen as it is...

why continue to cling to it... dear One...

though of course there is no 'clinging'... 8)





There is clinging.......but no one who is doing the clinging.


there is just the story... being experienced... from each perspective...

no 'michael'... and no 'toombaru'... with apparently different viewpoints...

just this story...







I'm afraid that that is merely another speculation that emerges within dream........about the dream.






inseparable from the One in which it appears and for which it is apparent...
though no 'thing' is apparent at all... just these 'sensations' rising and falling... in concord with this that is known... ever unchanged...

Love







If what you say is true........that could never be known from within the conceptual soup.



The characters within a dream could never access their own imaginary condition.



Any speculation about the nature of the perceptions arising from within the assumption of autonomy are extensions of the initial confusion.



There is simply no way around.....or through this.





toombaru
maple3
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Re: "Now"

Post by maple3 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:06 am

awakening wrote:
maple3 wrote: So... just how long is "a tenth of a second" :?: :-k


Love
This made me laugh out loud Maple...
Oh, it's like that sometimes... funny... yes... even when I'm not trying to be clever. ;) :lol:

And as you probably already know there's also a pointer inherent in that question. ... and a darn good question if Toombaru would only stop a minute to try to answer it. :-k
awakening wrote:of course it took precisely one tenth of a second
but then it hit me... :D
So even when the KNOWING is a whole tenth of a second late (whatever that is :roll:), somehow the KNOWING is still persistently t/here after all... (and mysteriously IT's still right on time. ;)) :D

But hey, it's just like you mentioned elsewhere on this board... there's "no time like the PRESENT..." ;) :D


Love
awakening
Site Admin
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Re: "Now"

Post by awakening » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:55 am

maple3 wrote:
awakening wrote:
maple3 wrote: So... just how long is "a tenth of a second" :?: :-k


Love
This made me laugh out loud Maple...
Oh, it's like that sometimes... funny... yes... even when I'm not trying to be clever. ;) :lol:

And as you probably already know there's also a pointer inherent in that question. ... and a darn good question if Toombaru would only stop a minute to try to answer it. :-k
awakening wrote:of course it took precisely one tenth of a second
but then it hit me... :D
So even when the KNOWING is a whole tenth of a second late (whatever that is :roll:), somehow the KNOWING is still persistently t/here after all... (and mysteriously IT's still right on time. ;)) :D

But hey, it's just like you mentioned elsewhere on this board... there's "no time like the PRESENT..." ;) :D


Love
OK Maple..

Let me try to answer for Toombaru
and perhaps he can answer it from Leo's perspective.. :wink:

The pseudo fear based entity that arises as a by product of the conceptual mind's attempt at self preservation has mistakenly assumed to be a god worshiping tube worm who has been given free will, while actually it only mechanically responds to stimuli reaching its brain before it has a chance to choose. Yet it glorifies itself as being created in a methane distributing Gods' image, and in control of its own imaginary kingdom.... silly little tube worm.

And the best Present
One can give
is a good time.. :D

So thank you for the laughs..



Lydian
Posts: 390
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Location: UK

Re: "Now"

Post by Lydian » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:35 am

michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:It takes a tenth of a second for the brain to assimilate incoming data.

Does that tell you anything?

:roll:
what it says is that (from toombaru's perspective)... this dream of 'brains' is apparently very persistent...

last time I checked... I couldn't find My brain anywhere... :shock:

perhaps toomby could say where 'his brain' is... and I'll see if mine is there too... :D

actually... I know they are in the same place...

right here in the knowing of them...

the only 'place' they ever are...

Love

:D :D
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by michael » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:50 am

toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:toombaru 8) ... don't misunderstand...

the 'brain' 'functions' just as it appears to... with sensory data acting on the nervous system... creating signals that travel as electro-chemical impulses.. releasing hormones and neuro-transmitters... which 'mediate' the apparent experience of the assumed 'real world' (outside the head)... that seems to 'appear 0.10 seconds after the 'event' in the (assumed) 'real world'...

but this whole scenario is purely 'conceptual'...
How could that be known?
By whom could that be known?
by no 'whom'... simply known... one with this knowing...

'what' is known are concepts: 'number' 'form' and 'meaning'...

knowing (and apparently seeing): '17'... one of all numbers... all separate... all inter-related... irreducible... simply known...

knowing (and apparently seeing): 'cube'... one of all possible forms... irreducible... simply known...

knowing (and apparently seeing): 'mother'... one with all 'meaning'... 'self referential'... irreducible... simply known

see that these 'marks' are not 'what' is known...

these marks: '17' are not the number known

these marks: 'cube' are not the form known

these marks: 'mother' are not the meaning known

no 'image seen' or 'feeling felt' or 'odour smelled' or 'sound heard' or 'flavour tasted' is the 'concept known'...

all sensations are themselves entirely without meaning...

you cannot see 'your grandchild'... or any 'thing' at all...

the apparent form is not 'grandchild'... if the form was the meaning... it could not also be 'child' and 'friend'... and all the other 'labels' (meaning) applied to it...

'what' is known is invisible... intangible... beyond the reach of the senses...

"how are these 'invisible concepts' ('number', 'form' and meaning') known"... and " 'what' are they 'in essence' "... and " 'what' is 'knowing' 'in essence' "...

no idea... :D

all that is sensed are sensations... one with the sensing of them... entirely meaningless... without instrinsic 'number' or 'form'...

"what 'in essence' are these senses and sensations sensed that are one with the sensing of them"...

no idea... :D

" 'how' are these sensations patterned to image these concepts"... and " 'how are 'concepts remembered' as they are imaged"...

no idea... :D

and "how simply sensing sensations and knowing concepts 'magically' appears as 'this world'... in all its wonder and beauty and terror... inhabited by 'me' (whichever 'me' I seem to be)... and 'other people' "...

no idea... :D

and "how did all this come to be"... and "how is it sustained"...

no idea... :D

though this cannot be grasped through any concept (idea)...

yet... here it is!
michael wrote:if it appears "I am blind" as a result of a congenital defect in 'my brain'... then no images are seen... as life is experienced from the perspective of the 'blind man'...

but the 'seeing' is not 'damaged'... for the 'whole world'... including the 'malformed brain'... is all story...
toombaru wrote:My friend Madison is twelve years old..........she is blind.

I'm sure that she will be glad to hear that.
no she won't... for not only is she blind... she cannot hear... or feel... or taste... or smell... or know...

'she' exists only in imagination... just like 'toombaru' and 'michael'...

no 'thing' seen... can see

no 'thing' perceived... can perceive
michael wrote:when the story is seen as it is...

why continue to cling to it... dear One...

though of course there is no 'clinging'... 8)
toombaru wrote:There is clinging.......but no one who is doing the clinging.
such is the appearance...
michael wrote:there is just the story... being experienced... from each perspective...

no 'michael'... and no 'toombaru'... with apparently different viewpoints...

just this story...
toombaru wrote:I'm afraid that that is merely another speculation that emerges within dream........about the dream.
while the dream appears 'real'... it seems there is no escape from it... but it is only an appearance...

there is no thing to escapre from... and no one in need of escape...

no one deluded... or clinging...
michael wrote:(what appears) is inseparable from the One in which it appears and for which it is apparent...

though no 'thing' is apparent at all... just these 'sensations' rising and falling... in concord with this that is known... ever unchanged...

Love
toombaru wrote:If what you say is true........that could never be known from within the conceptual soup.

The characters within a dream could never access their own imaginary condition.

Any speculation about the nature of the perceptions arising from within the assumption of autonomy are extensions of the initial confusion.

There is simply no way around.....or through this.
yes... no way out for the character... no way out for 'toombaru'... or 'michael'... or any 'concept'... :D

Love
Last edited by michael on Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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toombaru
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Post by toombaru » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:00 pm

michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:toombaru 8) ... don't misunderstand...

the 'brain' 'functions' just as it appears to... with sensory data acting on the nervous system... creating signals that travel as electro-chemical impulses.. releasing hormones and neuro-transmitters... which 'mediate' the apparent experience of the assumed 'real world' (outside the head)... that seems to 'appear 0.10 seconds after the 'event' in the (assumed) 'real world'...

but this whole scenario is purely 'conceptual'...
How could that be known?
By whom could that be known?
by no 'whom'... simply known... one with this knowing...

'what' is known are concepts: 'number' 'form' and 'meaning'...

knowing (and apparently seeing): '17'... one of all numbers... all separate... all inter-related... irreducible... simply known...

knowing (and apparently seeing): 'cube'... one of all possible forms... irreducible... simply known...

knowing (and apparently seeing): 'mother'... one with all 'meaning'... 'self referential'... irreducible... simply known

see that these 'marks' are not 'what' is known...

these marks: '17' are not the number known

these marks: 'cube' are not the form known

these marks: 'mother' are not the meaning known

no 'image seen' or 'feeling felt' or 'odour smelled' or 'sound heard' or 'flavour tasted' is the 'concept known'...

all sensations are themselves entirely without meaning...

you cannot see 'your grandchild'... or any 'thing' at all...

the apparent form is not 'grandchild'... if the form was the meaning... it could not also be 'child' and 'friend'... and all the other 'labels' (meaning) applied to it...

'what' is known is invisible... intangible... beyond the reach of the senses...

"how are these 'invisible concepts' ('number', 'form' and meaning') known"... and " 'what' are they 'in essence' "... and " 'what' is 'knowing' 'in essence' "...

no idea... :D

all that is sensed are sensations... one with the sensing of them... entirely meaningless... without instrinsic 'number' or 'form'...

"what 'in essence' are these senses and sensations sensed that are one with the sensing of them"...

no idea... :D

" 'how' are these sensations patterned to image these concepts"... and " 'how are 'concepts remembered' as they are imaged"...

no idea... :D

and "how simply sensing sensations and knowing concepts 'magically' appears as 'this world'... in all its wonder and beauty and terror... inhabited by 'me' (whichever 'me' I seem to be)... and 'other people' "...

no idea... :D

and "how did all this come to be"... and "how is it sustained"...

no idea... :D

though this cannot be grasped through any concept (idea)...

yet... here it is!
michael wrote:if it appears "I am blind" as a result of a congenital defect in 'my brain'... then no images are seen... as life is experienced from the perspective of the 'blind man'...

but the 'seeing' is not 'damaged'... for the 'whole world'... including the 'malformed brain'... is all story...
My friend Madison is twelve years old..........she is blind.

I'm sure that she will be glad to hear that.
no she won't... for not only is she blind... she cannot hear... or feel... or taste... or smell... or know...

'she' exists only in imagination... just like 'toombaru' and 'michael'...

no 'thing' seen... can see

no 'thing' perceived... can perceive

[quote-"michael"]when the story is seen as it is...

why continue to cling to it... dear One...

though of course there is no 'clinging'... 8)[/quote]

There is clinging.......but no one who is doing the clinging.[/quote]

such is the appearance...

[quote-"michael"]there is just the story... being experienced... from each perspective...

no 'michael'... and no 'toombaru'... with apparently different viewpoints...

just this story...[/quote]

I'm afraid that that is merely another speculation that emerges within dream........about the dream.[/quote]

while the dream appears 'real'... it seems there is no escape from it... but it is only an appearance...

there is no thing to escapre from... and no one in need of escape...

no one deluded... or clinging...
michael wrote:(what appears) is inseparable from the One in which it appears and for which it is apparent...

though no 'thing' is apparent at all... just these 'sensations' rising and falling... in concord with this that is known... ever unchanged...

Love
If what you say is true........that could never be known from within the conceptual soup.

The characters within a dream could never access their own imaginary condition.

Any speculation about the nature of the perceptions arising from within the assumption of autonomy are extensions of the initial confusion.

There is simply no way around.....or through this.[/quote]

yes... no way out for the character... no way out for 'toombaru'... or 'michael'... or any 'concept'... :D

Love[/quote]



Well then.......................coffee?



toombaru
michael
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by michael » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:41 am

toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:toombaru 8) ... don't misunderstand...

the 'brain' 'functions' just as it appears to... with sensory data acting on the nervous system... creating signals that travel as electro-chemical impulses.. releasing hormones and neuro-transmitters... which 'mediate' the apparent experience of the assumed 'real world' (outside the head)... that seems to 'appear 0.10 seconds after the 'event' in the (assumed) 'real world'...

but this whole scenario is purely 'conceptual'...
How could that be known?
By whom could that be known?
by no 'whom'... simply known... one with this knowing...

'what' is known are concepts: 'number' 'form' and 'meaning'...

knowing (and apparently seeing): '17'... one of all numbers... all separate... all inter-related... irreducible... simply known...

knowing (and apparently seeing): 'cube'... one of all possible forms... irreducible... simply known...

knowing (and apparently seeing): 'mother'... one with all 'meaning'... 'self referential'... irreducible... simply known

see that these 'marks' are not 'what' is known...

these marks: '17' are not the number known

these marks: 'cube' are not the form known

these marks: 'mother' are not the meaning known

no 'image seen' or 'feeling felt' or 'odour smelled' or 'sound heard' or 'flavour tasted' is the 'concept known'...

all sensations are themselves entirely without meaning...

you cannot see 'your grandchild'... or any 'thing' at all...

the apparent form is not 'grandchild'... if the form was the meaning... it could not also be 'child' and 'friend'... and all the other 'labels' (meaning) applied to it...

'what' is known is invisible... intangible... beyond the reach of the senses...

"how are these 'invisible concepts' ('number', 'form' and meaning') known"... and " 'what' are they 'in essence' "... and " 'what' is 'knowing' 'in essence' "...

no idea... :D

all that is sensed are sensations... one with the sensing of them... entirely meaningless... without instrinsic 'number' or 'form'...

"what 'in essence' are these senses and sensations sensed that are one with the sensing of them"...

no idea... :D

" 'how' are these sensations patterned to image these concepts"... and " 'how are 'concepts remembered' as they are imaged"...

no idea... :D

and "how simply sensing sensations and knowing concepts 'magically' appears as 'this world'... in all its wonder and beauty and terror... inhabited by 'me' (whichever 'me' I seem to be)... and 'other people' "...

no idea... :D

and "how did all this come to be"... and "how is it sustained"...

no idea... :D

though this cannot be grasped through any concept (idea)...

yet... here it is!

if it appears "I am blind" as a result of a congenital defect in 'my brain'... then no images are seen... as life is experienced from the perspective of the 'blind man'...

but the 'seeing' is not 'damaged'... for the 'whole world'... including the 'malformed brain'... is all story...
My friend Madison is twelve years old..........she is blind.

I'm sure that she will be glad to hear that.
no she won't... for not only is she blind... she cannot hear... or feel... or taste... or smell... or know...

'she' exists only in imagination... just like 'toombaru' and 'michael'...

no 'thing' seen... can see

no 'thing' perceived... can perceive

[quote-"michael"]when the story is seen as it is...

why continue to cling to it... dear One...

though of course there is no 'clinging'... 8)
There is clinging.......but no one who is doing the clinging.
such is the appearance...
michael wrote:there is just the story... being experienced... from each perspective...

no 'michael'... and no 'toombaru'... with apparently different viewpoints...

just this story...
toombaru wrote:I'm afraid that that is merely another speculation that emerges within dream........about the dream.
while the dream appears 'real'... it seems there is no escape from it... but it is only an appearance...

there is no thing to escapre from... and no one in need of escape...

no one deluded... or clinging...
michael wrote:(what appears) is inseparable from the One in which it appears and for which it is apparent...

though no 'thing' is apparent at all... just these 'sensations' rising and falling... in concord with this that is known... ever unchanged...

Love
toombaru wrote:If what you say is true........that could never be known from within the conceptual soup.

The characters within a dream could never access their own imaginary condition.

Any speculation about the nature of the perceptions arising from within the assumption of autonomy are extensions of the initial confusion.

There is simply no way around.....or through this.
yes... no way out for the character... no way out for 'toombaru'... or 'michael'... or any 'concept'... :D

Love


Well then.......................coffee?



toombaru
that sounds like the best 'idea' :D you've had in a while dear One...

cappuccino please... one sugar...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
maple3
Posts: 1065
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Location: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

Re: "Now"

Post by maple3 » Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:48 pm

awakening wrote:
maple3 wrote:
awakening wrote:
maple3 wrote: So... just how long is "a tenth of a second" :?: :-k


Love
This made me laugh out loud Maple...
Oh, it's like that sometimes... funny... yes... even when I'm not trying to be clever. ;) :lol:

And as you probably already know there's also a pointer inherent in that question. ... and a darn good question if Toombaru would only stop a minute to try to answer it. :-k
awakening wrote:of course it took precisely one tenth of a second
but then it hit me... :D
So even when the KNOWING is a whole tenth of a second late (whatever that is :roll:), somehow the KNOWING is still persistently t/here after all... (and mysteriously IT's still right on time. ;)) :D

But hey, it's just like you mentioned elsewhere on this board... there's "no time like the PRESENT..." ;) :D


Love
OK Maple..

Let me try to answer for Toombaru
and perhaps he can answer it from Leo's perspective.. :wink:

The pseudo fear based entity that arises as a by product of the conceptual mind's attempt at self preservation has mistakenly assumed to be a god worshiping tube worm who has been given free will, while actually it only mechanically responds to stimuli reaching its brain before it has a chance to choose. Yet it glorifies itself as being created in a methane distributing Gods' image, and in control of its own imaginary kingdom.... silly little tube worm.
Wow Leo, you're really starting to look/sound just like toombaru. :shock:

But here's another question (perhaps rhetorical?) ...
Does the tube worm (known as toombaru) KNOW that he knows that the other tube worms don't KNOW? :-k

And a couple more questions (rhetorical?)...
Does the tube worm (known as toombaru) KNOW that he's totally making up that bit about "a tenth of a second." And finally, if he KNOWs that he doesn't know, how does he KNOW that? :?
awakening wrote:And the best Present
One can give
is a good time.. :D

So thank you for the laughs..
Ahh, you're welcome [bigsmile]...
and when it comes to a "good time" (and also "laughs") it is truly just as much fun to give as it is to receive ... (and that's apparently true even if we are just a couple of silly little tube worms :lol:) ...

but hey, please don't ask me how I KNOW. [wink]


Love
awakening
Site Admin
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Re: "Now"

Post by awakening » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:13 pm

maple3 wrote: But here's another question (perhaps rhetorical?) ...
Does the tube worm (known as toombaru) KNOW that he knows that the other tube worms don't KNOW? :-k

And a couple more questions (rhetorical?)...
Does the tube worm (known as toombaru) KNOW that he's totally making up that bit about "a tenth of a second." And finally, if he KNOWs that he doesn't know, how does he KNOW that? :?
No, the tube worm does not know
it is part of the known....

:wink:
meL

Post by meL » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:17 pm

"
Does the tube worm (known as toombaru) KNOW that he's totally making up that bit about "a tenth of a second." And finally, if he KNOWs that he doesn't know, how does he KNOW that?
"

He SEEz IT ... then knowz IT


"
KNOWs that he doesn't know, how does he KNOW that?
"
He knowz that SEEing is real..................nevermid :shock:

8) 8) 8)
meL

Post by meL » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:18 pm

knowing

is what Flows away ... SEEing doesnt

SEEing IS Flowing

simple
.
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