Designer Gods

empty-and-full
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Post by empty-and-full » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:05 pm

toombaru wrote:[qu
ote="aquarius"]
toombaru wrote:
aquarius wrote:so do unicorns



so what's the point?

"God" comes from the same place as unicorns.



toombaru
well duh!!

are we not just going round in circles?

.





Yes.



You asked ME to dance.





toombaru
Dance, that's all any of us can do. The dance is there for it's own sake.

Let's try and keep in step.

Or not. :D
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
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Post by toombaru » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:10 pm

empty-and-full wrote:
toombaru wrote:[qu
ote="aquarius"]
toombaru wrote:
aquarius wrote:so do unicorns



so what's the point?

"God" comes from the same place as unicorns.



toombaru
well duh!!

are we not just going round in circles?

.





Yes.



You asked ME to dance.





toombaru
Dance, that's all any of us can do. The dance is there for it's own sake.

Let's try and keep in step.

Or not. :D


....soft music......the rhythm coursing.......a dip.........thighs rubbing.........Life....laughing.


.........like this.
awakening
Site Admin
Posts: 2277
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:10 pm

Re: Designer Gods

Post by awakening » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:26 pm

toombaru wrote:
Aurora wrote:
toombaru wrote:Diabetes, ALS, chronic back pain, Lupis, Cancer, macular degeneration, arthritus, malaria, AIDS, herpes, dementia, stroke, hepatitus A and B, cistic fibrosis, Lyme disease, plague, STD flesh eating bacteria, tape worm, sickle cell anemia, Parkenson's disease, Alzheimer's, congestive heart failure, kidney stones, Terretts, Lymphatic filariasiis, arrhythmia, schitzophrenia, flat feet. etc.etc.etc.




........................good job God.

you know how the vision works? How the outside light is transmitted through the lens , the signal transportet through the 2. brain nerve and via transmission " seen " throug the vision part of the brain.

Do you know how the fertilized egg, is growing, how the growing cells are folding themselves , and spezializing , growing for 9 months, and then coming out , to grow, talk, walk, and finally post at an internet forum!

you know how the gas exchange is working in the smallest part of the airways, giving new oksygen to the body tissue and breathing CO 2 out.

do you know how the sinus rytmic senter in the heart is fiering, giving heartbeats, how the valves is opening, and closing at right times for the blood to go out.

you know how the DNA is working, coding for the protein the body needs?


....... I have been working with diseases day and also nights for 15 years , and still at wonder of the miracle of the body .......

.......I can stabilize a fracture, but it is healing by itself........

.....I can give medicin for an arytmia, but its the heart beating that is the miracle....


Its the miracle, toombaru , the miracle ....



It is all a miracle....Which means......it isn't a miracle at all.

And the attempt to explain it by saying that a god did it all......says nothing.


Theologians have struggled....unsuccessfully...for eons in an attempt to explain a compassionate god that would create such suffering.

Why couldn't He just create a world without all the pain?

Oh....I know...I've heard all the arguments.

They all conclude with something like suffering is good....or God has mysterious ways......

Tell me.......Why do you believe that a god would allow the suffering that you see everywhere?





toombaru
God does not do this..
S-HE -the omni present one- is all there is.
But even S-HE cannot manifest the height of the mountain
without manifesting the depth of the valley.
The hight IS the depth
seen from another angle.



Alan Watts from "The Drama of it All"

Suppose you're God. Suppose you have all time, eternity, and all power at your disposal. What would you say to yourself after a while, "Man, get lost." It's like asking another question which amounts to supposing you were given the power to dream any dream you wanted to dream every night. Naturally, you could dream any span of time---and it could be anything you wanted---because you make up your mind before you go to sleep. "Tonight I'm going to dream of so-and-so." Naturally, you would start out by fulfilling all your wishes. You would have all the pleasures you could imagine, the most marvelous meals, the most entrancing love affairs, the most romantic journeys; you could listen to music such as no mortal has heard, and see landscapes beyond your wildest dreams.

And for several nights, oh maybe for a whole month of nights, you would go on that way, having a wonderful time. But then, after a while, you would begin to think, "Well, I've seen quite a bit, let's spice it up, let's have a little adventure." And you would dream of yourself being threatened by all sorts of dangers. You would rescue princesses from dragons, you would perhaps engage in notable battles, you would be a hero! And then as time went on, you would dare yourself to do more and more outrageous things, and at some point in the game you would say, "Tonight I am going to dream in such a way that I don't know that I'm dreaming," and by so doing you would take the experience of the drama for complete reality. What a shock when you woke up! You could really scare yourself!

And then on successive nights you might dare yourself to experience even more extraordinary things just for the contrast when you woke up. You could , for example, dream yourself in situation of extreme poverty, disease, agony. You could, as it were, live the essence of suffering to its most intense point, and then suddenly, wake up and find it was after all nothing but a dream and everything's perfectly OK.

Well, how do you know that's not what you're doing already. You reading, sitting there with all your problems, with all your whole complicated life situation, it may just be the very dream you decided to get into.

If you don't like it, what fun it'll be when you wake up!

This is the essence of drama. In drama all the people who see it know it's only a play. The proscenium arch, the cinema screen tells us, "Well, this is an illusion, it is not for real." In other words, they are going to act their parts so convincingly that they're going to have us sitting on the edge of our seats in anxiety, they're going to make us laugh, they're going to make us cry, they're going to make us feel horror. And all the time, in the back of our minds we have what Germans call hintergedanken, which is a thought way, way way in the back of our minds, that we're hardly aware of but really know all the time. In the theater, we have a hintergedanken that it's only a play. But the mastery of the actors is going to almost convince us that it's real.

And so, imagine a situation in which you have the best of all possible actors, namely God, and the best of all possible audiences ready to be taken in and convinced that it's real, namely God, and that you are all many many masks which the basic consciousness, the basic mind of the universe, is assuming. To use a verse from G.K. Chesterton:

But now a great thing is in the street
Seems any human nod
Where shift in strange democracy
The million masks of God.



More at:
http://groups.msn.com/TheContinuanceofA ... itall.msnw




awakening
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Posts: 2277
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:10 pm

Post by awakening » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:28 pm

And the other version:


An ancient story for kids of all ages by Alan Watts.

There was never a time when the world began, because it goes round and round like a circle, and there is no place on a circle where it begins. Look at my watch, which tells the time; it goes round, and so the world repeats itself again and again. But just as the hour-hand of the watch goes up to twelve and down to six, so, too, there is day and night, waking and sleeping, living and dying, summer and winter. You can't have one of these without the other, because you wouldn't be able to know what black is unless you had seen it side-by-side with white, or white unless side-by-side with black.

In the same way, there are times when the world is and when it isn't, for if the world went on and on without rest for ever and ever, it would get horribly tired of itself, it always comes back after it disappears. It's like your breath: it goes in and out, in and out, and if you try to hold it in all the time you feel terrible. It's also like the game of hide-and-seek, because it's always fun to find new ways of hiding, and to seek for someone who doesn't always hide in the same place.

God also likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside God, he has no one but himself to play with. But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear.

Now when God plays hide-and-seek and pretends that he is you and I, he does it so well that it takes him a long time to remember where and how he hid himself. But that's the whole fun of it- just what he wanted to do. He doesn't want to find himself too quickly, for that would spoil the game. That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we are God in disguise, pretending not to be himself. But when the game had gone on long enough, all of us will wake up, stop pretending, and remember that we are all one single Self-the God who is all that there is and who lives for ever and ever.

Of course, you must remember that God is not shaped like a person. People have skins and there is always something outside our skin. If there weren't, we wouldn't know the difference between what is inside and outside our bodies. But God has no skin and no shape because there isn't any outside to him. [With a sufficiently intelligent child, I illustrate this with a Mobius strip-a ring of paper tape twisted once in such way that it has only one side and one edge] The inside and the outside of God are the same. And though I have been talking about God as 'he' and not 'she,' God isn't a man or a woman. I didn't say 'it' because we usually say 'it' for things that are not alive.

God is the Self of the world, but you can't see God for the same reason that, without a mirror, you can't see your own eyes, and you certainly can't bite your own teeth or look inside your head. Your self is that cleverly hidden, because it is God hiding.

You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself. Remember, too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad.

It's the same as when we play cards. At the beginning of the game we shuffle them all into a mess, which is like the bad things in the world, but the point of the game is to put the mess into good order, and the one who does it best is the winner. Then we shuffle the cards once more and play again, and so it goes with the world.

From; THE BOOK (On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are) by Alan Watts.
Vintage Books. A Division of Random House, Inc. New York ISBN 0-679-72300-5 (pbk.)

toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Re: Designer Gods

Post by toombaru » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:37 pm

awakening wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Aurora wrote:
toombaru wrote:Diabetes, ALS, chronic back pain, Lupis, Cancer, macular degeneration, arthritus, malaria, AIDS, herpes, dementia, stroke, hepatitus A and B, cistic fibrosis, Lyme disease, plague, STD flesh eating bacteria, tape worm, sickle cell anemia, Parkenson's disease, Alzheimer's, congestive heart failure, kidney stones, Terretts, Lymphatic filariasiis, arrhythmia, schitzophrenia, flat feet. etc.etc.etc.




........................good job God.

you know how the vision works? How the outside light is transmitted through the lens , the signal transportet through the 2. brain nerve and via transmission " seen " throug the vision part of the brain.

Do you know how the fertilized egg, is growing, how the growing cells are folding themselves , and spezializing , growing for 9 months, and then coming out , to grow, talk, walk, and finally post at an internet forum!

you know how the gas exchange is working in the smallest part of the airways, giving new oksygen to the body tissue and breathing CO 2 out.

do you know how the sinus rytmic senter in the heart is fiering, giving heartbeats, how the valves is opening, and closing at right times for the blood to go out.

you know how the DNA is working, coding for the protein the body needs?


....... I have been working with diseases day and also nights for 15 years , and still at wonder of the miracle of the body .......

.......I can stabilize a fracture, but it is healing by itself........

.....I can give medicin for an arytmia, but its the heart beating that is the miracle....


Its the miracle, toombaru , the miracle ....



It is all a miracle....Which means......it isn't a miracle at all.

And the attempt to explain it by saying that a god did it all......says nothing.


Theologians have struggled....unsuccessfully...for eons in an attempt to explain a compassionate god that would create such suffering.

Why couldn't He just create a world without all the pain?

Oh....I know...I've heard all the arguments.

They all conclude with something like suffering is good....or God has mysterious ways......

Tell me.......Why do you believe that a god would allow the suffering that you see everywhere?





toombaru
God does not do this..
S-HE -the omni present one- is all there is.
But even S-HE cannot manifest the height of the mountain
without manifesting the depth of the valley.
The hight IS the depth
seen from another angle.



Alan Watts from "The Drama of it All"

Suppose you're God. Suppose you have all time, eternity, and all power at your disposal. What would you say to yourself after a while, "Man, get lost." It's like asking another question which amounts to supposing you were given the power to dream any dream you wanted to dream every night. Naturally, you could dream any span of time---and it could be anything you wanted---because you make up your mind before you go to sleep. "Tonight I'm going to dream of so-and-so." Naturally, you would start out by fulfilling all your wishes. You would have all the pleasures you could imagine, the most marvelous meals, the most entrancing love affairs, the most romantic journeys; you could listen to music such as no mortal has heard, and see landscapes beyond your wildest dreams.

And for several nights, oh maybe for a whole month of nights, you would go on that way, having a wonderful time. But then, after a while, you would begin to think, "Well, I've seen quite a bit, let's spice it up, let's have a little adventure." And you would dream of yourself being threatened by all sorts of dangers. You would rescue princesses from dragons, you would perhaps engage in notable battles, you would be a hero! And then as time went on, you would dare yourself to do more and more outrageous things, and at some point in the game you would say, "Tonight I am going to dream in such a way that I don't know that I'm dreaming," and by so doing you would take the experience of the drama for complete reality. What a shock when you woke up! You could really scare yourself!

And then on successive nights you might dare yourself to experience even more extraordinary things just for the contrast when you woke up. You could , for example, dream yourself in situation of extreme poverty, disease, agony. You could, as it were, live the essence of suffering to its most intense point, and then suddenly, wake up and find it was after all nothing but a dream and everything's perfectly OK.

Well, how do you know that's not what you're doing already. You reading, sitting there with all your problems, with all your whole complicated life situation, it may just be the very dream you decided to get into.

If you don't like it, what fun it'll be when you wake up!

This is the essence of drama. In drama all the people who see it know it's only a play. The proscenium arch, the cinema screen tells us, "Well, this is an illusion, it is not for real." In other words, they are going to act their parts so convincingly that they're going to have us sitting on the edge of our seats in anxiety, they're going to make us laugh, they're going to make us cry, they're going to make us feel horror. And all the time, in the back of our minds we have what Germans call hintergedanken, which is a thought way, way way in the back of our minds, that we're hardly aware of but really know all the time. In the theater, we have a hintergedanken that it's only a play. But the mastery of the actors is going to almost convince us that it's real.

And so, imagine a situation in which you have the best of all possible actors, namely God, and the best of all possible audiences ready to be taken in and convinced that it's real, namely God, and that you are all many many masks which the basic consciousness, the basic mind of the universe, is assuming. To use a verse from G.K. Chesterton:

But now a great thing is in the street
Seems any human nod
Where shift in strange democracy
The million masks of God.



More at:
http://groups.msn.com/TheContinuanceofA ... itall.msnw







A sewing......and a miss.


Alan is speaking to a phantom.......attempting to get "it" to "see" his personal perspective.


There is my dreams......an old lady that is always begging for something....

I wish she would just go away!




Late night upon the stair.

I saw a little man who wasn't there.

He wasn't there again today.

Gee.........I wish he'd go away.


toombaru
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:46 pm

awakening wrote:And the other version:


An ancient story for kids of all ages by Alan Watts.

There was never a time when the world began, because it goes round and round like a circle, and there is no place on a circle where it begins. Look at my watch, which tells the time; it goes round, and so the world repeats itself again and again. But just as the hour-hand of the watch goes up to twelve and down to six, so, too, there is day and night, waking and sleeping, living and dying, summer and winter. You can't have one of these without the other, because you wouldn't be able to know what black is unless you had seen it side-by-side with white, or white unless side-by-side with black.

In the same way, there are times when the world is and when it isn't, for if the world went on and on without rest for ever and ever, it would get horribly tired of itself, it always comes back after it disappears. It's like your breath: it goes in and out, in and out, and if you try to hold it in all the time you feel terrible. It's also like the game of hide-and-seek, because it's always fun to find new ways of hiding, and to seek for someone who doesn't always hide in the same place.

God also likes to play hide-and-seek, but because there is nothing outside God, he has no one but himself to play with. But he gets over this difficulty by pretending that he is not himself. He pretends that he is you and I and all the people in the world, all the animals, all the plants, all the rocks, and all the stars. In this way he has strange and wonderful adventures, some of which are terrible and frightening. But these are just like bad dreams, for when he wakes up they will disappear.

Now when God plays hide-and-seek and pretends that he is you and I, he does it so well that it takes him a long time to remember where and how he hid himself. But that's the whole fun of it- just what he wanted to do. He doesn't want to find himself too quickly, for that would spoil the game. That is why it is so difficult for you and me to find out that we are God in disguise, pretending not to be himself. But when the game had gone on long enough, all of us will wake up, stop pretending, and remember that we are all one single Self-the God who is all that there is and who lives for ever and ever.

Of course, you must remember that God is not shaped like a person. People have skins and there is always something outside our skin. If there weren't, we wouldn't know the difference between what is inside and outside our bodies. But God has no skin and no shape because there isn't any outside to him. [With a sufficiently intelligent child, I illustrate this with a Mobius strip-a ring of paper tape twisted once in such way that it has only one side and one edge] The inside and the outside of God are the same. And though I have been talking about God as 'he' and not 'she,' God isn't a man or a woman. I didn't say 'it' because we usually say 'it' for things that are not alive.

God is the Self of the world, but you can't see God for the same reason that, without a mirror, you can't see your own eyes, and you certainly can't bite your own teeth or look inside your head. Your self is that cleverly hidden, because it is God hiding.

You may ask why God sometimes hides in the form of horrible people, or pretends to be people who suffer great disease and pain. Remember first, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself. Remember, too, that in almost all the stories you enjoy there have to be bad people as well as good people, for the thrill of the tale is to find out how the good people will get the better of the bad.

It's the same as when we play cards. At the beginning of the game we shuffle them all into a mess, which is like the bad things in the world, but the point of the game is to put the mess into good order, and the one who does it best is the winner. Then we shuffle the cards once more and play again, and so it goes with the world.

From; THE BOOK (On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are) by Alan Watts.
Vintage Books. A Division of Random House, Inc. New York ISBN 0-679-72300-5 (pbk.)






Sreeeeeeeeeerike Two!




Alan is still trying to make sense out of the perceptions that are the only movie.

He speaks of a self.....a god........and.........another relational conundrum.



toombaru
awakening
Site Admin
Posts: 2277
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:10 pm

Re: Designer Gods

Post by awakening » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:03 pm

toombaru wrote: Alan is speaking to a phantom.......attempting to get "it" to "see" his personal perspective.
He is just telling a story...
What one takes away from the story is another matter.

Here is another story...

There was a man who lived all his life in the desert.
He knew many things..
how to find his way by the stars
how to find water
how to find food
how to survive the heat of the day
and the cold of the night..

Sometimes travelers would pas through
and most of them talked about green lands and a blue desert of water they'd heard of from a man who claimed to have seen such miracles. The green land and the blue desert were to be found far away, to where the sun sets.

Non ever returned.

One day the man started west, but only found more sand and the remains of several fallen travelers who had died of thirst in search for the desert of water.

This made him turn around and now he talks to the travelers that come his way.

There are no lands of green,
he tells them, and there is no blue desert of water.
You, who live in the desert, have just imagined such a utopia.
Be realistic and don't believe those fools who sold you their imaginations..
Just look and see, is it not obvious that a blue desert can never be? Look what misery this story has brought so far, I have seen the corpses of fallen travelers who left their families only to die far from their homes.

The ones he cannot save, he lets them go, but he has the satisfaction that he saved many from a certain death.


Last edited by awakening on Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aurora
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:14 am

Re: Designer Gods

Post by Aurora » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:18 pm

toombaru wrote:

Why couldn't He just create a world without all the pain?


toombaru


I have no answer.

It is my question also.
awakening
Site Admin
Posts: 2277
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:10 pm

Re: Designer Gods

Post by awakening » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:27 pm

toombaru wrote:Why couldn't He just create a world without all the pain?
Aurora wrote: I have no answer.
It is my question also.
God does not create the world..
S-HE -the omni present One- is all there is.
And even S-HE cannot manifest the height of the mountain
without manifesting the depth of the valley.
The hight IS the depth
seen from another angle.

In manifestation
there are no one side coins.
Manifestation IS the + and - current
that 'makes' it appear
just so...

[ying] [ying] [ying]

Some one wrote: it would be very bad indeed if God were the author of evil and we were his victims. That is to say, if we keep the model of the King of the Universe, and the creatures are all subjects of the king, then a God who is responsible for evil is being very unkind to other people. But in this theory God is not "an-other" person, there are no "victims" of God. He is never anything but His own victim.

==========================

When everyone recognizes beauty as beautiful,
there is already ugliness.
When everyone recognizes goodness as good,
there is already evil.
‘To be’ and ‘not to be’ arise mutually;
Difficult and easy are mutually realized;
Long and short are mutually contrasted.


========================


The Great Way is not difficult
for those not attached to preferences.

When neither love nor hate arises,
all is clear and undisguised.

Separate by the smallest amount, however,
and you are as far from it as heaven is from earth.

If you wish to know the truth,
then hold to no opinions for or against anything.

To set up what you like against what you dislike
is the disease of the mind.

When the fundamental nature of things is not recognized
the mind’s essential peace is disturbed to no avail.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

. As Chang-tzu said,

"Those who would have good government without its correlative misrule, and right without its correlative wrong, do not understand the principles of the universe."

Last edited by awakening on Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Lydian
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:12 pm
Location: UK

Re: Designer Gods

Post by Lydian » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:53 pm

toombaru wrote:
Lydian wrote:
toombaru wrote: If that is its nature.......why factor in a creator god?
Most, if not all who have contributed to this theme of 'God' on this forum are not postulating the existence of a "creator god".

They are merely pointing out that the word 'God' as used here is a label for the nameless... IT/Being/Consciousness/Awareness/Tao etc.....

Yet you continually hijack and distort this simple 'understanding' and go into some polemic against the historical institutionalized idea of God and religion in general.

Are you aware that you are doing this?

:roll:

Yes...........I am.

A God..........by any name..........is still a god.

I am saying that the new age god......eg "God is All...is merely another spin on the delusional thought out of which the sense of separateness emerges......and then seeks to verify its own delusional assumptions.

The thought stream assumes that since it can...to some limited extent..... manipulate the physical environment....make coffee....raise its hand....etc....it imagines that it can also control that which exists only within its personal ideation.....(all things spiritual).

It seldom intuits that it is a shadow......stacking shadows.......living under the domain of a shadow god.
Meanwhile......

Gods.... and... gods... and... oneness... and... relational conundrums... and... campfires of home... and... pink elephants...

And loads and loads of other stuff.....

Arise.... as/in this aware-ing.......

BANG!!!!!!

This IS-ness that cannot be named.....

Yet cannot be avoided........







(Just don't call it God..... ;) )





Goodnight playmate. :D
meL

Re: Designer Gods

Post by meL » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:37 pm

Aurora wrote:
toombaru wrote:

Why couldn't He just create a world without all the pain?


toombaru


I have no answer.

It is my question also.
Would
You
rather
be
a
rock ... no free will in this dream/story
?
:D

magick

the story is already written
and
You can wander around Here ... in Heaven
:D
:D
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Re: Designer Gods

Post by toombaru » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:57 am

Lydian wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Lydian wrote:
toombaru wrote: If that is its nature.......why factor in a creator god?
Most, if not all who have contributed to this theme of 'God' on this forum are not postulating the existence of a "creator god".

They are merely pointing out that the word 'God' as used here is a label for the nameless... IT/Being/Consciousness/Awareness/Tao etc.....

Yet you continually hijack and distort this simple 'understanding' and go into some polemic against the historical institutionalized idea of God and religion in general.

Are you aware that you are doing this?

:roll:

Yes...........I am.

A God..........by any name..........is still a god.

I am saying that the new age god......eg "God is All...is merely another spin on the delusional thought out of which the sense of separateness emerges......and then seeks to verify its own delusional assumptions.

The thought stream assumes that since it can...to some limited extent..... manipulate the physical environment....make coffee....raise its hand....etc....it imagines that it can also control that which exists only within its personal ideation.....(all things spiritual).

It seldom intuits that it is a shadow......stacking shadows.......living under the domain of a shadow god.
Meanwhile......

Gods.... and... gods... and... oneness... and... relational conundrums... and... campfires of home... and... pink elephants...

And loads and loads of other stuff.....

Arise.... as/in this aware-ing.......

BANG!!!!!!

This IS-ness that cannot be named.....

Yet cannot be avoided........







(Just don't call it God..... ;) )





Goodnight playmate. :D



Good night.

Thanks for the dance.



:lol:




toombaru
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Designer Gods

Post by michael » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:52 am

toombaru wrote:
Aurora wrote:
toombaru wrote:Diabetes, ALS, chronic back pain, Lupis, Cancer, macular degeneration, arthritus, malaria, AIDS, herpes, dementia, stroke, hepatitus A and B, cistic fibrosis, Lyme disease, plague, STD flesh eating bacteria, tape worm, sickle cell anemia, Parkenson's disease, Alzheimer's, congestive heart failure, kidney stones, Terretts, Lymphatic filariasiis, arrhythmia, schitzophrenia, flat feet. etc.etc.etc.




........................good job God.

you know how the vision works? How the outside light is transmitted through the lens , the signal transportet through the 2. brain nerve and via transmission " seen " throug the vision part of the brain.

Do you know how the fertilized egg, is growing, how the growing cells are folding themselves , and spezializing , growing for 9 months, and then coming out , to grow, talk, walk, and finally post at an internet forum!

you know how the gas exchange is working in the smallest part of the airways, giving new oksygen to the body tissue and breathing CO 2 out.

do you know how the sinus rytmic senter in the heart is fiering, giving heartbeats, how the valves is opening, and closing at right times for the blood to go out.

you know how the DNA is working, coding for the protein the body needs?


....... I have been working with diseases day and also nights for 15 years , and still at wonder of the miracle of the body .......

.......I can stabilize a fracture, but it is healing by itself........

.....I can give medicin for an arytmia, but its the heart beating that is the miracle....


Its the miracle, toombaru , the miracle ....



It is all a miracle....Which means......it isn't a miracle at all.

And the attempt to explain it by saying that a god did it all......says nothing.


Theologians have struggled....unsuccessfully...for eons in an attempt to explain a compassionate god that would create such suffering.

Why couldn't He just create a world without all the pain?

Oh....I know...I've heard all the arguments.

They all conclude with something like suffering is good....or God has mysterious ways......

Tell me.......Why do you believe that a god would allow the suffering that you see everywhere?





toombaru
can't have 'good' without 'evil'...

why 'allow it'...

the question is 'who suffers'...

where there is 'preference'... already 'two' is apparent...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Re: Designer Gods

Post by toombaru » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:33 am

michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Aurora wrote:
toombaru wrote:Diabetes, ALS, chronic back pain, Lupis, Cancer, macular degeneration, arthritus, malaria, AIDS, herpes, dementia, stroke, hepatitus A and B, cistic fibrosis, Lyme disease, plague, STD flesh eating bacteria, tape worm, sickle cell anemia, Parkenson's disease, Alzheimer's, congestive heart failure, kidney stones, Terretts, Lymphatic filariasiis, arrhythmia, schitzophrenia, flat feet. etc.etc.etc.




........................good job God.

you know how the vision works? How the outside light is transmitted through the lens , the signal transportet through the 2. brain nerve and via transmission " seen " throug the vision part of the brain.

Do you know how the fertilized egg, is growing, how the growing cells are folding themselves , and spezializing , growing for 9 months, and then coming out , to grow, talk, walk, and finally post at an internet forum!

you know how the gas exchange is working in the smallest part of the airways, giving new oksygen to the body tissue and breathing CO 2 out.

do you know how the sinus rytmic senter in the heart is fiering, giving heartbeats, how the valves is opening, and closing at right times for the blood to go out.

you know how the DNA is working, coding for the protein the body needs?


....... I have been working with diseases day and also nights for 15 years , and still at wonder of the miracle of the body .......

.......I can stabilize a fracture, but it is healing by itself........

.....I can give medicin for an arytmia, but its the heart beating that is the miracle....


Its the miracle, toombaru , the miracle ....



It is all a miracle....Which means......it isn't a miracle at all.

And the attempt to explain it by saying that a god did it all......says nothing.


Theologians have struggled....unsuccessfully...for eons in an attempt to explain a compassionate god that would create such suffering.

Why couldn't He just create a world without all the pain?

Oh....I know...I've heard all the arguments.

They all conclude with something like suffering is good....or God has mysterious ways......

Tell me.......Why do you believe that a god would allow the suffering that you see everywhere?





toombaru
can't have 'good' without 'evil'...

why 'allow it'...

the question is 'who suffers'...

where there is 'preference'... already 'two' is apparent...

Love


In nature......there are no polar opposites.

They exist only within the conceptual self......and cannot be used as a reference to anything.



toombaru
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Designer Gods

Post by michael » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:48 am

toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Aurora wrote:
toombaru wrote:Diabetes, ALS, chronic back pain, Lupis, Cancer, macular degeneration, arthritus, malaria, AIDS, herpes, dementia, stroke, hepatitus A and B, cistic fibrosis, Lyme disease, plague, STD flesh eating bacteria, tape worm, sickle cell anemia, Parkenson's disease, Alzheimer's, congestive heart failure, kidney stones, Terretts, Lymphatic filariasiis, arrhythmia, schitzophrenia, flat feet. etc.etc.etc.




........................good job God.

you know how the vision works? How the outside light is transmitted through the lens , the signal transportet through the 2. brain nerve and via transmission " seen " throug the vision part of the brain.

Do you know how the fertilized egg, is growing, how the growing cells are folding themselves , and spezializing , growing for 9 months, and then coming out , to grow, talk, walk, and finally post at an internet forum!

you know how the gas exchange is working in the smallest part of the airways, giving new oksygen to the body tissue and breathing CO 2 out.

do you know how the sinus rytmic senter in the heart is fiering, giving heartbeats, how the valves is opening, and closing at right times for the blood to go out.

you know how the DNA is working, coding for the protein the body needs?


....... I have been working with diseases day and also nights for 15 years , and still at wonder of the miracle of the body .......

.......I can stabilize a fracture, but it is healing by itself........

.....I can give medicin for an arytmia, but its the heart beating that is the miracle....


Its the miracle, toombaru , the miracle ....



It is all a miracle....Which means......it isn't a miracle at all.

And the attempt to explain it by saying that a god did it all......says nothing.


Theologians have struggled....unsuccessfully...for eons in an attempt to explain a compassionate god that would create such suffering.

Why couldn't He just create a world without all the pain?

Oh....I know...I've heard all the arguments.

They all conclude with something like suffering is good....or God has mysterious ways......

Tell me.......Why do you believe that a god would allow the suffering that you see everywhere?





toombaru
can't have 'good' without 'evil'...

why 'allow it'...

the question is 'who suffers'...

where there is 'preference'... already 'two' is apparent...

Love


In nature......there are no polar opposites.

They exist only within the conceptual self......and cannot be used as a reference to anything.



toombaru
so where is this 'good' and 'evil' of which you speak that arises from the belief in god...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
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