Fear

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maple3
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Post by maple3 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:20 am

awakening wrote:
ANNA wrote:
meL wrote:
awakening wrote:Fear comes from the dictionary...
perfect
:D
...then from where the dictionary comes? lol :wink: :P

Isn't that obvious Anna...???
from fear of course. :D
Ohhh... obviously a closed LOOP. :D


Love
maple3
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Post by maple3 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:26 am

michael wrote: from the perspective of a battle hardened soldier... the sound of a firecracker is not fearful...
Oh, but what about those who suffer from "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome" (PTSD)? They are "battle hardened" in a way that makes the sound of a firecracker intolerable.

There is that "concept" of fear... but there is also an autonomous and biological aspect to "fear"... it's not actually necessary for anyone to claim it, or name it, or even to fear it, in order for fear to happen.


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jeff j
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Post by jeff j » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:30 am

is ptsd
remembering what was an illusion
as reality?
be yourself, the real fictional character?
michael
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Post by michael » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:37 am

maple3 wrote:
michael wrote: from the perspective of a battle hardened soldier... the sound of a firecracker is not fearful...
Oh, but what about those who suffer from "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome" (PTSD)? They are "battle hardened" in a way that makes the sound of a firecracker intolerable.

There is that "concept" of fear... but there is also an autonomous and biological aspect to "fear"... it's not actually necessary for anyone to claim it, or name it, or even to fear it, in order for fear to happen.


Love
PTSD is a phenomenon no doubt... but it remains... the fear is not 'in the object'... an 'object cannot BE fearful... if it was... it would always engender the same 'fear'... in all creatures...

it is just like 'beauty'... 'fear' is in the 'eye of the beholder'...

as for it being 'biological'... no doubt that is the conceived 'cause'...

be honest 'jeff'... this 'autonomous biological aspect to fear'... exists right now as a pure concept...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
michael
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Post by michael » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:39 am

jeff j wrote:is ptsd
remembering what was an illusion
as reality?
if so... then 'we' are all apparently suffering from it... :D

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
maple3
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Post by maple3 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:41 am

jeff j wrote:is ptsd
remembering what was an illusion
as reality?
PTSD is going even farther past the simple "remembering"...

It's really more on the automatic/autonomic nervous system level...


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epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:42 am

Are you guys old or something ?

...you sound as if you were in Viet Nam war...

Stress disorder ?

... have you bumped your head ?
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:46 am

Shrinks call it 'The shock of separation'

...in other words...deaf dumb and blind...I see the world in a certain way...

...yet the world had something else to deliver...

Reality....quite the shock

Shadows of another day... :roll:
maple3
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Post by maple3 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:48 am

michael wrote:
maple3 wrote:
michael wrote: from the perspective of a battle hardened soldier... the sound of a firecracker is not fearful...
Oh, but what about those who suffer from "Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome" (PTSD)? They are "battle hardened" in a way that makes the sound of a firecracker intolerable.

There is that "concept" of fear... but there is also an autonomous and biological aspect to "fear"... it's not actually necessary for anyone to claim it, or name it, or even to fear it, in order for fear to happen.


Love
PTSD is a phenomenon no doubt... but it remains... the fear is not 'in the object'... an 'object cannot BE fearful... if it was... it would always engender the same 'fear'... in all creatures...

it is just like 'beauty'... 'fear' is in the 'eye of the beholder'...

as for it being 'biological'... no doubt that is the conceived 'cause'...

be honest 'jeff'... this 'autonomous biological aspect to fear'... exists right now as a pure concept...

Love
I totally agree that the fear is not in the object. I was just trying to give another angle to the "fear" discussion. Just saying that raw fear exists before and beyond any "conception" of it. Simple naked "fear" (without any regard to concepts or thoughts about "fear") just IS.

(Um, sorry if I'm not being sufficiently articulate. ;)


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maple3
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Post by maple3 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:51 am

epi wrote:Are you guys old or something ?

...you sound as if you were in Viet Nam war...

Stress disorder ?

... have you bumped your head ?
I'm 51, and I wasn't in the war, but I was a Navy veteran, and I go to the Veteran's hospital for treatment. And I have a lot of veteran friends there who do suffer from terrible PTSD. I also have a form of PTSD (that is not related to the Viet Nam war). So yeah, I know a little bit about the rawness of fear that is beyond concepts.


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michael
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Post by michael » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:56 am

maple3 wrote:
epi wrote:Are you guys old or something ?

...you sound as if you were in Viet Nam war...

Stress disorder ?

... have you bumped your head ?
I'm 51, and I wasn't in the war, but I was a Navy veteran, and I go to the Veteran's hospital for treatment. And I have a lot of veteran friends there who do suffer from terrible PTSD. I also have a form of PTSD (that is not related to the Viet Nam war). So yeah, I know a little bit about the rawness of fear that is beyond concepts.


Love
maple... there is always a concept lurking behind the emotion of fear...

can you articulate it...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:09 am

Maybe.... if not but for a moment

we rise above

our influences....

...to see the stillness,

SpaceTime revealed .... as it is ....

a solitary disintrested part ......of us all
toombaru
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Post by toombaru » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:13 am

michael wrote:
toombaru wrote:
epi wrote: Fear is in its recognition

(Swamananda)






.........or in the firecrackers.........



:shock:
from the perspective of a battle hardened soldier... the sound of a firecracker is not fearful...

it is not the apparent object that contains the fear...

the only thing 'fearful'... is fear...

Love

Sometime....just for the fun if it.........the next battle hardened soldier you come across........yell: "INCOMING" really loud.......and watch what happens.



toombaru
michael
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Post by michael » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:14 am

epi wrote:Maybe.... if not but for a moment

we rise above

our influences....

...to see the stillness,

SpaceTime revealed .... as it is ....

a solitary disintrested part ......of us all
SpaceTime is not a part of 'us'... nor 'we' of 'it'... except as conceived...

there are no separate bits... except as conceived...

there is no thing here to grasp... no appearance is closer to... nor further from the seeing of it... than any other apparent thing...

seeing is 'spaceless'... 'timeless'... 'objectless'...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
epi
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Post by epi » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:16 am

michael wrote:
epi wrote:Maybe.... if not but for a moment

we rise above

our influences....

...to see the stillness,

SpaceTime revealed .... as it is ....

a solitary disintrested part ......of us all
SpaceTime is not a part of 'us'... nor 'we' of 'it'... except as conceived...

there are no separate bits... except as conceived...

there is no thing here to grasp... no appearance is closer to... nor further from the seeing of it... than any other apparent thing...

seeing is 'spaceless'... 'timeless'... 'objectless'...

Love
Mikey...mikey...mikey :roll:
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