The Quality of Things...

michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

The Quality of Things...

Post by michael » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:31 am

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... :D )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
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Re: The Quality of Things...

Post by toombaru » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:29 am

michael wrote:It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... :D )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love


Even more fundamental..........What is the quality of the perceiver of things?



toombaru
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Quality of Things...

Post by michael » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:51 am

toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... :D )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love


Even more fundamental..........What is the quality of the perceiver of things?



toombaru
hey whose topic is this...

first 'things' first... 8)

I'll answer yours... if you answer mine... :D

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
meL

Post by meL » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:14 am

i am
thinking
You are beautiful
.
.
.
THEN
"
You Are So Beautiful
"
:D
godszen
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:40 pm

Re: The Quality of Things...

Post by godszen » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:32 am

toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... :D )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love


Even more fundamental..........What is the quality of the perceiver of things?



toombaru
living, loving, all embracing light
Chalis
Posts: 40
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Location: UK

Post by Chalis » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:04 am

Is it not so that if there is no perceiver there is no orange and therefore the question doesn't arise?

:P
michael
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by michael » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:13 am

Chalis wrote:Is it not so that if there is no perceiver there is no orange and therefore the question doesn't arise?

:P
lets take it slooow... :D

taking it one step at a time... you are saying... if there was no seeing there is no colour...

'colour' is thus a 'quality' of 'seeing'... not of any 'thing'...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Quality of Things...

Post by michael » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:14 am

godszen wrote:
toombaru wrote:
michael wrote:It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... :D )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love


Even more fundamental..........What is the quality of the perceiver of things?



toombaru
living, loving, all embracing light
I'm getting way ahead of myself... :D

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
Chalis
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:57 pm
Location: UK

Post by Chalis » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:17 am

[quote="michael'colour' is thus a 'quality' of 'seeing'... not of any 'thing'...
[/quote]

=D>
Chalis
Posts: 40
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Location: UK

Post by Chalis » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:17 am

Oh :cry: my quote thingy didn't work.....
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by michael » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:09 am

Chalis wrote:Oh :cry: my quote thingy didn't work.....
just click the edit button and insert a right bracket after [quote="michael"...

also there is a whole page on how to use quote boxes and other formatting in the "Forum Tips and Suggestions"... it is the second of the three forums on the first page of "awakeningtothedream.com Forum Index" ... before you go into this forum

Love
Last edited by michael on Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
Lydian
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:12 pm
Location: UK

Re: The Quality of Things...

Post by Lydian » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:41 am

michael wrote:It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... :D )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love
I'm not sure if I'm following this, but...

There is no orange... only the memory arising presently...

Why shouldn't the memory of the orange object be orange?
.
michael
Posts: 3816
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Quality of Things...

Post by michael » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:48 am

Lydian wrote:
michael wrote:It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... :D )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love
I'm not sure if I'm following this, but...

There is no orange... only the memory arising presently...

Why shouldn't the memory of the orange object be orange?
.
again... you're going too fast... :D

the memory is a concept... that includes the idea of orange colour... but this 'idea' cannot be seen...

memory also includes the 'visual impression' of the actual colour seen...

if it is not seen at all in any way... what is 'colour'...

Love
From Source to Source: an Endless Spring
Lydian
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:12 pm
Location: UK

Re: The Quality of Things...

Post by Lydian » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:22 pm

michael wrote:
Lydian wrote:
michael wrote:It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... :D )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love
I'm not sure if I'm following this, but...

There is no orange... only the memory arising presently...

Why shouldn't the memory of the orange object be orange?
.
again... you're going too fast... :D

the memory is a concept... that includes the idea of orange colour... but this 'idea' cannot be seen...

memory also includes the 'visual impression' of the actual colour seen...

if it is not seen at all in any way... what is 'colour'...

Love
Hmmm...... this smacks of more ontology......... and for that reason Michael........ I'm out!


8)



(Do you get 'Dragons Den' down there?)
jeff j
Posts: 2822
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:49 pm

Re: The Quality of Things...

Post by jeff j » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:01 pm

michael proposes:

..."things have qualities that are sensed..."

then michael asks:
"An 'orange' possess[es] a certain colour and flavour,
a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature;
and it has a certain resonance;
as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries;
the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance;
all of which are named 'orange'.

Now imagine that you cannot see the ' orange';
what colour is it?

...it is still 'orange',
because someone else is seeing it, or could see it;
but if there is no other person, if there was no seeing at all,
what colour is the 'orange'? "

Love
:lol:
be yourself, the real fictional character?
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