The Quality of Things...

[michael]

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love

[toombaru]

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love

Even more fundamental..........What is the quality of the perceiver of things?



toombaru

[michael]

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love

Even more fundamental..........What is the quality of the perceiver of things?



toombaru

hey whose topic is this...

first 'things' first...

I'll answer yours... if you answer mine...

Love

[meL]

i am
thinking
You are beautiful
.
.
.
THEN
"
You Are So Beautiful
"

[godszen]

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love

Even more fundamental..........What is the quality of the perceiver of things?



toombaru

living, loving, all embracing light

[Chalis]

Is it not so that if there is no perceiver there is no orange and therefore the question doesn't arise?

[michael]

Is it not so that if there is no perceiver there is no orange and therefore the question doesn't arise?

lets take it slooow...

taking it one step at a time... you are saying... if there was no seeing there is no colour...

'colour' is thus a 'quality' of 'seeing'... not of any 'thing'...

Love

[michael]

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love

Even more fundamental..........What is the quality of the perceiver of things?



toombaru

living, loving, all embracing light

I'm getting way ahead of myself...

Love

[Chalis]

[quote="michael'colour' is thus a 'quality' of 'seeing'... not of any 'thing'...
[/quote]

[Chalis]

Oh my quote thingy didn't work.....

[michael]

Oh my quote thingy didn't work.....

just click the edit button and insert a right bracket after [quote="michael"...

also there is a whole page on how to use quote boxes and other formatting in the "Forum Tips and Suggestions"... it is the second of the three forums on the first page of "awakeningtothedream.com Forum Index" ... before you go into this forum

Love

[Lydian]

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love

I'm not sure if I'm following this, but...

There is no orange... only the memory arising presently...

Why shouldn't the memory of the orange object be orange?
.

[michael]

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love

I'm not sure if I'm following this, but...

There is no orange... only the memory arising presently...

Why shouldn't the memory of the orange object be orange?
.

again... you're going too fast...

the memory is a concept... that includes the idea of orange colour... but this 'idea' cannot be seen...

memory also includes the 'visual impression' of the actual colour seen...

if it is not seen at all in any way... what is 'colour'...

Love

[Lydian]

It is said that 'things' have qualities that are sensed...

such that an orange (the thing itself) is said to possess a certain colour and flavour... a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature... and that it has a certain resonance (the sound it makes when you whack it... )... as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries... and of course the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance... all of which are named 'orange'...

and yet now imagine that you cannot see the orange... what colour is it...

oh you say... it is still orange... because someone else is seeing it... or could see it...

but if there is no other person... if there was no seeing at all... what colour is the 'orange'...

Love

I'm not sure if I'm following this, but...

There is no orange... only the memory arising presently...

Why shouldn't the memory of the orange object be orange?
.

again... you're going too fast...

the memory is a concept... that includes the idea of orange colour... but this 'idea' cannot be seen...

memory also includes the 'visual impression' of the actual colour seen...

if it is not seen at all in any way... what is 'colour'...

Love

Hmmm...... this smacks of more ontology......... and for that reason Michael........ I'm out!






(Do you get 'Dragons Den' down there?)

[jeff j]

michael proposes:

..."things have qualities that are sensed..."

then michael asks:
"An 'orange' possess[es] a certain colour and flavour,
a certain texture, weight, solidity and temperature;
and it has a certain resonance;
as well, its juice is said to be moist and slightly sticky as it dries;
the skin and flesh and juice has a unique fragrance;
all of which are named 'orange'.

Now imagine that you cannot see the ' orange';
what colour is it?

...it is still 'orange',
because someone else is seeing it, or could see it;
but if there is no other person, if there was no seeing at all,
what colour is the 'orange'? "

Love