Just for FUN

toombaru
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Re: Just for FUN

Post by toombaru » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:15 pm

dilaram wrote:
toombaru wrote:


I am deadly serious.
If it's fun you seek........join the circus.
If it is the ultimate understanding that has captured your gaze.........everything that you thought was fun becomes painful.


Enlightenment is nothing personal, my friend.


See above.
aquarius
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:07 pm
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

Post by aquarius » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:35 pm

........
I love talking about nothing ...
it is the only thing i know anything about.
aquarius
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:07 pm
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

Post by aquarius » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:37 pm

The root cause of human suffering

In the most private spaces of each person's inner conscious life, a deep dissatisfaction is lurking, a nagging sense that life is somehow out of kilter, misaligned, not quite as it should be.
No matter how rich or secure or successful a person may be, a fundamental dissatisfaction still persists. The reasons for that dissatisfaction are plain. Everything a human being hopes for is in some sense imperfect, disappointing, or hollow. In the end we all die, which is the ultimate disappointment.

At the same time, surely there are things that every person, no matter how poor or wretched, can be sincerely grateful for. Some things bring more joy than pain, even if the joy is tinged with grief, and even if those things are lost at death.

To renounce desire is not a humane response to the fundamental dissatisfaction, even if the pursuit of desire really were the cause of pain and frustration. It seems that a characteristic of all living things is that they grasp relentlessly after survival and opportunity.

Paradoxically, by facing the emptiness and by surrendering completely to its inevitability, we come to deep peace and no longer suffer.
Many human needs are rooted in biology. Those obviously shouldn't be denied or trivialized. Pain is a fact. We feel pain or grief from loss. Desire is part of what makes us vital.

In any case, disassociating from desire can never actually relieve suffering, because the presence of pain and the lack of pleasure are not what causes suffering.

First of all, pain is not necessarily a synonym for suffering. We can't deny or escape pain, but we can be free from suffering by changing how we relate to the fundamental dissatisfaction.

The fundamental dissatisfaction is an unquenchable thirst that is a side effect of human cognition itself, due to being sentient in the physical world.

We can conceive of a perfectly round circle or a perfectly straight line, but those never exist in the physical world. Nothing in the physical world ever lines up exactly with our inner concepts. How we respond to the experience of that misalignment is what matters.

The mistake that leads to suffering is the simple delusion that the fundamental dissatisfaction can be extinguished by gaining more pleasure or feeling less pain or, in other words, by getting more of what we want.

The root cause of suffering is that we unrelentingly struggle to get rid of the fundamental dissatisfaction by means of the fulfillment of our desires, and yet that dissatisfaction sticks to us as a perpetual, unanswerable craving.

It can be difficult to realize that the fundamental dissatisfaction even exists, because it is veiled by our restless struggle to get rid of it. Once we realize that it exists, we're too horrified to accept that it really is unquenchable.

Paradoxically, by facing the emptiness and by surrendering completely to its inevitability, we come to deep peace and no longer suffer.

Pain is natural and inevitable, and all animals feel it, but the condition of suffering is unnecessary.

Michael Webb
I love talking about nothing ...
it is the only thing i know anything about.
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:00 pm

aquarius wrote:The root cause of human suffering

In the most private spaces of each person's inner conscious life, a deep dissatisfaction is lurking, a nagging sense that life is somehow out of kilter, misaligned, not quite as it should be.
No matter how rich or secure or successful a person may be, a fundamental dissatisfaction still persists. The reasons for that dissatisfaction are plain. Everything a human being hopes for is in some sense imperfect, disappointing, or hollow. In the end we all die, which is the ultimate disappointment.

At the same time, surely there are things that every person, no matter how poor or wretched, can be sincerely grateful for. Some things bring more joy than pain, even if the joy is tinged with grief, and even if those things are lost at death.

To renounce desire is not a humane response to the fundamental dissatisfaction, even if the pursuit of desire really were the cause of pain and frustration. It seems that a characteristic of all living things is that they grasp relentlessly after survival and opportunity.

Paradoxically, by facing the emptiness and by surrendering completely to its inevitability, we come to deep peace and no longer suffer.
Many human needs are rooted in biology. Those obviously shouldn't be denied or trivialized. Pain is a fact. We feel pain or grief from loss. Desire is part of what makes us vital.

In any case, disassociating from desire can never actually relieve suffering, because the presence of pain and the lack of pleasure are not what causes suffering.

First of all, pain is not necessarily a synonym for suffering. We can't deny or escape pain, but we can be free from suffering by changing how we relate to the fundamental dissatisfaction.

The fundamental dissatisfaction is an unquenchable thirst that is a side effect of human cognition itself, due to being sentient in the physical world.

We can conceive of a perfectly round circle or a perfectly straight line, but those never exist in the physical world. Nothing in the physical world ever lines up exactly with our inner concepts. How we respond to the experience of that misalignment is what matters.

The mistake that leads to suffering is the simple delusion that the fundamental dissatisfaction can be extinguished by gaining more pleasure or feeling less pain or, in other words, by getting more of what we want.

The root cause of suffering is that we unrelentingly struggle to get rid of the fundamental dissatisfaction by means of the fulfillment of our desires, and yet that dissatisfaction sticks to us as a perpetual, unanswerable craving.

It can be difficult to realize that the fundamental dissatisfaction even exists, because it is veiled by our restless struggle to get rid of it. Once we realize that it exists, we're too horrified to accept that it really is unquenchable.

Paradoxically, by facing the emptiness and by surrendering completely to its inevitability, we come to deep peace and no longer suffer.

Pain is natural and inevitable, and all animals feel it, but the condition of suffering is unnecessary.

Michael Webb


Desire is the essence of life.

The human mechanism evolved to search for those things that fulfill its biological requirements.

It did not evolve to be happy.

In the truest sense......it can at most attain a temporary satiation that it mistakes for happiness.

The attempt to see that desire is the root cause of suffering is merely another attempt to avoid the human condition.

There can come strange contentment when that is apperceived.

Everything continues on as it must.

Life struggles to survive and reproduce......but the center breaks free and awareness becomes impersonal.
aquarius
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:07 pm
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

Post by aquarius » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:32 pm

toombaru wrote:



Desire is the essence of life.

The human mechanism evolved to search for those things that fulfill its biological requirements.

It did not evolve to be happy.

In the truest sense......it can at most attain a temporary satiation that it mistakes for happiness.

The attempt to see that desire is the root cause of suffering is merely another attempt to avoid the human condition.

There can come strange contentment when that is apperceived.

Everything continues on as it must.

Life struggles to survive and reproduce......but the center breaks free and awareness becomes impersonal.
Agreed toomby.

In my experience it is when awareness becomes impersonal is when the fun begins.

Being completely transparent is a hoot, don't you think?
I love talking about nothing ...
it is the only thing i know anything about.
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:37 pm

aquarius wrote:
toombaru wrote:



Desire is the essence of life.

The human mechanism evolved to search for those things that fulfill its biological requirements.

It did not evolve to be happy.

In the truest sense......it can at most attain a temporary satiation that it mistakes for happiness.

The attempt to see that desire is the root cause of suffering is merely another attempt to avoid the human condition.

There can come strange contentment when that is apperceived.

Everything continues on as it must.

Life struggles to survive and reproduce......but the center breaks free and awareness becomes impersonal.
Agreed toomby.

In my experience it is when awareness becomes impersonal is when the fun begins.

Being completely transparent is a hoot, don't you think?



The blank spaces begin to fill in when I think about its transparency.

:wink:
aquarius
Posts: 2408
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 4:07 pm
Location: The united kingdom of heaven

Post by aquarius » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:45 pm

toombaru wrote:

The blank spaces begin to fill in when I think about its transparency.

:wink:
Yes, thinking fills the void....with nothing.... a hoot :wink:
I love talking about nothing ...
it is the only thing i know anything about.
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:54 pm

aquarius wrote:
toombaru wrote:

The blank spaces begin to fill in when I think about its transparency.

:wink:
Yes, thinking fills the void....with nothing.... a hoot :wink:


:lol:
angela
Posts: 1078
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:21 am
Location: uk

Post by angela » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:51 am

aquarius wrote:The root cause of human suffering

In the most private spaces of each person's inner conscious life, a deep dissatisfaction is lurking, a nagging sense that life is somehow out of kilter, misaligned, not quite as it should be.
No matter how rich or secure or successful a person may be, a fundamental dissatisfaction still persists. The reasons for that dissatisfaction are plain. Everything a human being hopes for is in some sense imperfect, disappointing, or hollow. In the end we all die, which is the ultimate disappointment.

At the same time, surely there are things that every person, no matter how poor or wretched, can be sincerely grateful for. Some things bring more joy than pain, even if the joy is tinged with grief, and even if those things are lost at death.

To renounce desire is not a humane response to the fundamental dissatisfaction, even if the pursuit of desire really were the cause of pain and frustration. It seems that a characteristic of all living things is that they grasp relentlessly after survival and opportunity.

Paradoxically, by facing the emptiness and by surrendering completely to its inevitability, we come to deep peace and no longer suffer.
Many human needs are rooted in biology. Those obviously shouldn't be denied or trivialized. Pain is a fact. We feel pain or grief from loss. Desire is part of what makes us vital.

In any case, disassociating from desire can never actually relieve suffering, because the presence of pain and the lack of pleasure are not what causes suffering.

First of all, pain is not necessarily a synonym for suffering. We can't deny or escape pain, but we can be free from suffering by changing how we relate to the fundamental dissatisfaction.

The fundamental dissatisfaction is an unquenchable thirst that is a side effect of human cognition itself, due to being sentient in the physical world.

We can conceive of a perfectly round circle or a perfectly straight line, but those never exist in the physical world. Nothing in the physical world ever lines up exactly with our inner concepts. How we respond to the experience of that misalignment is what matters.

The mistake that leads to suffering is the simple delusion that the fundamental dissatisfaction can be extinguished by gaining more pleasure or feeling less pain or, in other words, by getting more of what we want.

The root cause of suffering is that we unrelentingly struggle to get rid of the fundamental dissatisfaction by means of the fulfillment of our desires, and yet that dissatisfaction sticks to us as a perpetual, unanswerable craving.

It can be difficult to realize that the fundamental dissatisfaction even exists, because it is veiled by our restless struggle to get rid of it. Once we realize that it exists, we're too horrified to accept that it really is unquenchable.

Paradoxically, by facing the emptiness and by surrendering completely to its inevitability, we come to deep peace and no longer suffer.

Pain is natural and inevitable, and all animals feel it, but the condition of suffering is unnecessary.

Michael Webb
This reminds me of something I read by Wei Wu Wei - ''Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent of everything you think, and of everything you do, is for yourself . And there isn't one.'
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:04 am

angela wrote:
aquarius wrote:The root cause of human suffering

In the most private spaces of each person's inner conscious life, a deep dissatisfaction is lurking, a nagging sense that life is somehow out of kilter, misaligned, not quite as it should be.
No matter how rich or secure or successful a person may be, a fundamental dissatisfaction still persists. The reasons for that dissatisfaction are plain. Everything a human being hopes for is in some sense imperfect, disappointing, or hollow. In the end we all die, which is the ultimate disappointment.

At the same time, surely there are things that every person, no matter how poor or wretched, can be sincerely grateful for. Some things bring more joy than pain, even if the joy is tinged with grief, and even if those things are lost at death.

To renounce desire is not a humane response to the fundamental dissatisfaction, even if the pursuit of desire really were the cause of pain and frustration. It seems that a characteristic of all living things is that they grasp relentlessly after survival and opportunity.

Paradoxically, by facing the emptiness and by surrendering completely to its inevitability, we come to deep peace and no longer suffer.
Many human needs are rooted in biology. Those obviously shouldn't be denied or trivialized. Pain is a fact. We feel pain or grief from loss. Desire is part of what makes us vital.

In any case, disassociating from desire can never actually relieve suffering, because the presence of pain and the lack of pleasure are not what causes suffering.

First of all, pain is not necessarily a synonym for suffering. We can't deny or escape pain, but we can be free from suffering by changing how we relate to the fundamental dissatisfaction.

The fundamental dissatisfaction is an unquenchable thirst that is a side effect of human cognition itself, due to being sentient in the physical world.

We can conceive of a perfectly round circle or a perfectly straight line, but those never exist in the physical world. Nothing in the physical world ever lines up exactly with our inner concepts. How we respond to the experience of that misalignment is what matters.

The mistake that leads to suffering is the simple delusion that the fundamental dissatisfaction can be extinguished by gaining more pleasure or feeling less pain or, in other words, by getting more of what we want.

The root cause of suffering is that we unrelentingly struggle to get rid of the fundamental dissatisfaction by means of the fulfillment of our desires, and yet that dissatisfaction sticks to us as a perpetual, unanswerable craving.

It can be difficult to realize that the fundamental dissatisfaction even exists, because it is veiled by our restless struggle to get rid of it. Once we realize that it exists, we're too horrified to accept that it really is unquenchable.

Paradoxically, by facing the emptiness and by surrendering completely to its inevitability, we come to deep peace and no longer suffer.

Pain is natural and inevitable, and all animals feel it, but the condition of suffering is unnecessary.

Michael Webb
This reminds me of something I read by Wei Wu Wei - ''Why are you unhappy? Because 99.9 per cent of everything you think, and of everything you do, is for yourself . And there isn't one.'



There is one thing he left out.
Xmac
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:56 am
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

Post by Xmac » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:07 am

I don't associate desire with needing and wanting.

Toombaru, I also see desire as the essence of life.
As well as a spontaneous, thoughtless, self actualizing, creative, movement of Mind or what I call the Whatever.

It's like this: I see ice cream and I think, "I want that". Well, not to likely.

Then I say, "I need to eat", as I sit talking. True? I'm still skeptical.

Finally, I become aware of a sensation in my stomach and then I see that I'm peeling a banana...etc. Desire? It is in my "book".
Log on to the inner-net and be kind to your mind (or not).
makara
Posts: 1341
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:09 am
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

Post by makara » Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:46 am

what?
Anna, excuse me.
I was being frivalous.
In English we call the nerve near the elbow
the 'funny bone'.

So I was just making a silly joke.
__________________________

Dil asked
Was it SERIOUS
Maybe serious is not the best word.
S/times it seems that egos persist
with argument instead of really listening.
The big symptom is wanting to have the last word!

When this happens ... its gets boring
and what I named (or mis-named) serious.
__________________________

Toobaru wrote:
I am deadly serious.
If it's fun you seek........join the circus.
Knowing perhaps that Toombaru would say this
Longchenpa Rabjampa wrote back in the 14th century
Since things neither exist nor don't exist,
are neither real nor unreal,
are utterly beyond adopting and rejecting,
one might as well burst out laughing.
Dil pointed out:
Enlightenment is nothing personal
- insert clapping-

Toombaru wrote:
There is one thing he left out.
But doesn't say what.
How strange.

Aqua, thanks for the M.Webb quote.[/code]

Oh Anna ... while we have fewer paradoxes
downunder we do have the platapus!
Now there's a natural paradox.
Lives in water and burrow,
lays eggs,
is a mammal (secretes milk through its skin)
has a bill and webbed feet.
And they are so cute .. also indicate that the
water/river is clean.
ANNA
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:11 pm

Post by ANNA » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:15 am

makara wrote:
what?
Anna, excuse me.
I was being frivalous.
In English we call the nerve near the elbow
the 'funny bone'.

So I was just making a silly joke.
__________________________


Oh Anna ... while we have fewer paradoxes
downunder we do have the platapus!
Now there's a natural paradox.
Lives in water and burrow,
lays eggs,
is a mammal (secretes milk through its skin)
has a bill and webbed feet.
And they are so cute .. also indicate that the
water/river is clean.


Hi makara,

i knew it is some of one this silly english slangs and

with my poor english

i got it wrong... :lol:


glad it is all well with you! 8)


...and you never lose your wonder_Full

sense of humor :lol:



yes, i have read the same paradox about

paltypus and was amazed......


have a nice evening!

:D
makara
Posts: 1341
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:09 am
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

Post by makara » Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:24 am

paltypus and was amazed......


have a nice evening!


they are also very shy ... have to be very
quiet and patient to see them in the water.

and you a nice day there!

but don't have any fun
because waking up is a very serious business.
:lol:
ANNA
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:11 pm

Post by ANNA » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:12 am

makara wrote:
paltypus and was amazed......


have a nice evening!


they are also very shy ... have to be very
quiet and patient to see them in the water.

and you a nice day there!

but don't have any fun
because waking up is a very serious business.
:lol:

:lol:
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