Enlightenment

toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:20 am

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

There is no such thing as a person.
The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.
Xmac
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:56 am
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

Post by Xmac » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:30 am

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

There is no such thing as a person.

The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.
So there is such thing as a person: an inference, a mind map, etc.
Log on to the inner-net and be kind to your mind (or not).
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:13 am

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

There is no such thing as a person.

The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.
So there is such thing as a person: an inference, a mind map, etc.




There is a person in the sense that there are people in your dreams at night.
Xmac
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:56 am
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

Post by Xmac » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:04 am

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

There is no such thing as a person.

The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.
So there is such thing as a person: an inference, a mind map, etc.




There is a person in the sense that there are people in your dreams at night.
Then people, concept(s), are part of a waking experience and a delusional or dreaming experience.
Log on to the inner-net and be kind to your mind (or not).
makara
Posts: 1341
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:09 am
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

Post by makara » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:14 am

in a New Bloom, a New Community
..."This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius...
hamony & understanding, sympathy & trust abounding..."

oopps sorry folks, slipped into a good old musical there....

"when Jupiter aligns with Mars...."


:lol:
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:21 am

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

There is no such thing as a person.

The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.
So there is such thing as a person: an inference, a mind map, etc.




There is a person in the sense that there are people in your dreams at night.
Then people, concept(s), are part of a waking experience and a delusional or dreaming experience.



For the sense of self there is no waking experience.
It IS the delusion from which it seeks freedom.
empty-and-full
Posts: 1448
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: Unknown

Post by empty-and-full » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:26 am

Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

holding a position on something is like holding an opinion,


it's being involved in interpretation, in egoic thinking

to be person, you need to believe in the thought i am a person, or i am a human being

this is holding a position

therefore being a person means holding a position

the opposite of this of course

is having no idea whatsoever about who or what you are

it's about not really being involved in conceptualization

being still...
:)
makara
Posts: 1341
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:09 am
Location: By the ocean, ready for the big one.

Post by makara » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:47 am

is having no idea whatsoever about who or what you are

it's about not really being involved in conceptualization

being still...
(drat FFox again fails to open emoticon page)
so insert 'clapping'.
Xmac
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:56 am
Location: Boston area, Massachusetts

Post by Xmac » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:14 am

empty-and-full wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

holding a position on something is like holding an opinion,


it's being involved in interpretation, in egoic thinking

to be person, you need to believe in the thought i am a person, or i am a human being

this is holding a position

therefore being a person means holding a position

the opposite of this of course

is having no idea whatsoever about who or what you are

it's about not really being involved in conceptualization

being still...
I think Toombaru disagrees with your opening statements and it's not what I was asking.

BTW, if held positions or opinions are scrutinized by extensive inquiry they would be seen as non-existent. Terms like "ego" and "sense of self" are just more distraction that we are something separate from ourselves or the world; that we are cut off from peace. It is more belief in good guys and bad guys.
Log on to the inner-net and be kind to your mind (or not).
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:09 pm

Xmac wrote:
empty-and-full wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

holding a position on something is like holding an opinion,


it's being involved in interpretation, in egoic thinking

to be person, you need to believe in the thought i am a person, or i am a human being

this is holding a position

therefore being a person means holding a position

the opposite of this of course

is having no idea whatsoever about who or what you are

it's about not really being involved in conceptualization

being still...
I think Toombaru disagrees with your opening statements and it's not what I was asking.

BTW, if held positions or opinions are scrutinized by extensive inquiry they would be seen as non-existent. Terms like "ego" and "sense of self" are just more distraction that we are something separate from ourselves or the world; that we are cut off from peace. It is more belief in good guys and bad guys.
We are cut off from peace like the wind is cut off from stillness.
fox
Posts: 821
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:07 am
Location: Switzerland

Post by fox » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:20 pm

toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

There is no such thing as a person.
The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.
hmmmm, but what then is "the physical organism"...?!
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:23 pm

fox wrote:
toombaru wrote:
Xmac wrote:
toombaru wrote:
(t)
People don't have or hold positions.

Yes, however I regard that as a given.

People ARE positions.
What does that mean? They stay the same? They are located somewhere? In what sense?

There is no such thing as a person.
The person or the "I am" is an inference that emerges from the mnemonic debris that accumulates over the life span of the physical organism.
"Position" refers to a world-view or personal mind map.
The "person" IS the mind map.
hmmmm, but what then is "the physical organism"...?!


The meat-body.
fox
Posts: 821
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:07 am
Location: Switzerland

Post by fox » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:27 pm

so the "meat-body" is 'real'?
(Whereas the mnemonic debris is not?)
Blossom
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:02 pm
Location: Ojai, California

Post by Blossom » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:36 pm

[quote="toombaru We are cut off from peace like the wind is cut off from stillness.[/quote]

We cannot ever be cut off from Awareness and Awareness is Peace whether we know it or not---Awareness is not concerned with what goes on with the images within Its Beingness. Or say it this way: you can change the word Awareness to stillness, its the same thing, but Awareness is 'stillness' in that it cannot be altered. (Stillness) Awareness is not ruffled when the wind blows. Awareness is not changed when the wind blows. Awareness exists no matter how loud or forceful or chaotic the wind might be--- Awareness is not cut off when the wind blows. (Stillness) which is the same as Awareness (Peace), is not disturbed by or made loud when the voices shout.

Awareness is being the wind blowing and the one seeing the leaves russtle in the trees, and awareness is being the trees blowing in the wind---even if there is a hurricane force wind; awareness goes right on being aware completely free and totally unharmed by that force. even if the electric is cut off, and branches of the trees fall off---nothing happens to awareness; all that 'cutting off' is always "happening" or seen here within Awareness-Self-I-Am.
What is bound on earth is bound in heaven and what is freed on earth is freed in heaven.
toombaru
Posts: 5189
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:02 pm
Location: There are no locations

Post by toombaru » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:47 pm

fox wrote:so the "meat-body" is 'real'?
(Whereas the mnemonic debris is not?)

The meat-body has a substantial reality.
Memories do not.
The mind of man lives in a psychedelic collage that blends the two worlds.
A persona emerges in the center and claims the imaginary land.

"If you can set it on the table......it is real."

Jan Cox
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